00:00:00:00 - 00:00:16:12
Unknown
Peter Martin. What's up man? Pop quiz. Yep. What won the Grammy for album of the year in 1975? Grammy 1975 album of the year. Oh, Paul Simon's still crazy. We just did this. We just did. Yeah. Let's do it.
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Unknown
What about for 1976? Oh, 1976 Stevie Wonder songs with the Key Life.
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Unknown
Yeah. And I think 1977. I mean, it's got to be. It's got to be this. Yeah. Steely Dan Asia, we've done that too. It's gotta be actually wrong. No. Yeah. Rumor has it that it's this. Oh, boy.
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Unknown
That makes sense.
00:00:51:14 - 00:01:51:08
Unknown
They.
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Unknown
Know. That's all. You. That's all I'm good.
00:02:03:01 - 00:02:14:13
Unknown
I'm Adam, and I'm Peter. Mark. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It podcast. Music explored. Explored. Brought to you today by Open Studio. Go to Open studio jazz.com for 000 you jazz lesson needs
00:02:14:13 - 00:02:31:16
Unknown
Hey, Peter. Yes? Have we ever done an album quite like this, a great album, yes, we've done many of those. We do those every week. But this is a great album. This is a great this is an extraordinary album for sure, but I. Yeah, I think it's a little different than anything. I think that we're, we're, widening the net a little bit.
00:02:31:21 - 00:02:49:16
Unknown
The tent is getting a little bit bigger. But I think that I think this is right up the alley of a lot of our listeners. I think that this is actually not that controversial of a record. The greatness of it. Oh, no, not it is even among jazz snobs. That's the thing is, this is like this is very much not jazz adjacent.
00:02:49:16 - 00:03:09:16
Unknown
Right. So we've done, of course, lots of jazz albums, lots of jazz adjacent albums, right on this show. But I think this is the first one where you could say, like, yeah, that's not even really jazz adjacent, although there's one track we'll get to that much later that may have more of a connection than most people think. But, you know, one of the things that I was thinking about, one of the things that draws me to this album and always has, is the sound of the album.
00:03:09:16 - 00:03:37:00
Unknown
It's one of the greatest produced albums. The sounds that they get on on rumors here from Fleetwood Mac is really, I was going to say, unparalleled, but it's only paralleled by another album that came out in 1977, Steely Dan's Asia Rumors beat for the album of the year at the Grammys. The thing that rumors has that Asia maybe doesn't have is just incredible backstory, like the turmoil that was happening with this group of musicians, with this band.
00:03:37:03 - 00:03:53:00
Unknown
Look at this band as I know as they were. Do you want to invite them in for dinner or just call the police when you see them? First of all, like 70s rock albums, accouterments are off the charts. So good, so incredible. Yeah, but like, this is basically a soap opera that's happening. Everybody's together, everybody's breaking up. Yeah.
00:03:53:01 - 00:04:14:16
Unknown
Everybody's philandering. There's loads of drugs and drinking well all over the place. So they said so that. So that happened. It's just. And it's all comes from rock music record. What's that? Right. This is a rock and roll record. I this is a this is a pop rock record. I would think soft rock. Well maybe we're going to talk about that, but the lyrics of the album reflect all of the turmoil that's happening.
00:04:14:16 - 00:04:33:21
Unknown
Like people are breaking up and then writing songs about it. Yeah, they're screaming at each other and then recording background vocals together like it is an insane party that's happening here. In 1976, the members of Fleetwood Mac were set to record their 10th studio album, their second, with members Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham, who joined the band well into their tenure.
00:04:33:23 - 00:04:56:06
Unknown
Yeah, they would spend the next three months living and working together around the clock to record the album that would become rumors in a place kind of a shabby place. Yeah, called The Record Plant near San Francisco. Sus sus. Sausalito, Sausalito, Sausalito, says you. The only problem was they were all in the middle of breakups and with some with each other, I know, and with other members of the band.
00:04:56:06 - 00:05:15:17
Unknown
So Christine and John McVie had recently ended their marriage. So the bass player and the and the keys and singer songwriter. Yeah, Christine McVie had ended their marriage, but John clearly wasn't ready to let go. In his memoir, engineer, Ken Clay said John would get drunk and limit his break up with Christine following her around the room.
00:05:15:20 - 00:05:40:23
Unknown
Both Christine and John started dating other people during the recording and bring them around, apparently to the studio. Randos Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham, who had known each other since high school, were also in the process of breaking up. Their heartbreak and anger is encoded in the lyrics of many of the songs, like, it's so obvious what's going on, they'd have screaming matches between takes, but as soon as the red recording light went on, they'd put their, fight on hold and they'd sing harmony.
00:05:40:23 - 00:05:58:23
Unknown
Even Mick Fleetwood was suffering the breakdown of his own relationship with his wife back home, I think was like going with his best friend or something. Yeah. And he had two young kids and the whole thing, it was a lot. It was a lot. Well, I mean, in spite of her, because of all of this turmoil, rumors has become one of the best selling albums of all time.
00:05:58:23 - 00:06:28:08
Unknown
And Stevie Nicks Dreams, which is the second track on the album. Yeah, but become their only number one hit as a band. And it's just an incredible document of like these amazing artists really at the peak of like 70s rock culture, like going through it. Yeah. As young people. Yeah. Making music in the world. And it's really it happens to be wrapped in the most beautiful, glossy sounding packaging on the album, akin to Asia, right, where everything sounds absolutely gorgeous, right?
00:06:28:10 - 00:06:59:16
Unknown
Yeah, it's the type of record that regardless if you like, hate or love, or anywhere in between, the actual musical content, the lyrics, the melodies, the harmonies, all these things, they come together for the music, regardless how you feel about that. And I think it's an, an eminently approachable and lovable record, actually, musically. I mean, I think it'd be hard to not love this record, but even if you didn't, I think it'd be hard to dispute that the sonic differentiation between this and almost everything.
00:06:59:16 - 00:07:12:23
Unknown
I mean, you mentioned Asia, which is kind of the same, same year. That's kind of another one that would come on, this is the kind of record that they back in the day, and they still are probably putting on at the Hi-Fi store, hi fi, full farm up on big bands. You oh, you want to test out those those BMW speakers?
00:07:12:23 - 00:07:31:15
Unknown
Let's put a little rumors on. That's right. You could do worse than that. And I mean, just the especially if, like a young Deborah Manis, my mom comes in the store they're putting rumors on to sell to her. They put ninja on for less. Right? Right, right. They're putting rumors on for Debbie. But I was kind of like, not in spite of or irregardless to the musical content, just the instruments.
00:07:31:15 - 00:07:50:13
Unknown
The voices are captured so beautifully and just such a such a grace and elegance to it. Well, let's start with the first track. Like I said, all bangers. This is a banger, but this is like my seventh favorite song, the opening track. I think it's a good opening track, though. Yeah, this is secondhand news. This is. Yeah. This is what the faded and the fade out on this track faded, which is an interesting way to start the record.
00:07:50:15 - 00:08:13:15
Unknown
Lindsey Buckingham song. I think this sets the tone for the record taking place. When times go bad, times go wrong. Won't you lay me down into a. If you do my stuff I know I love, know me, yeah I know, but you can just hear the strumming of that guitar on these parts that are coming in. Wow. Production is amazing.
00:08:13:20 - 00:08:42:08
Unknown
Can't get down. Won't you lay me down in your face? If you masters, you know. Bam bam bam bam bam bam bam bam bam bam bam bam. Snare drum there. Yeah, man. You would actually get ripped off like ten years later in late 80s like fine young Campbell style, right? Right. So some cool little claps and like weird percussion things, little subtle things that were added in there to to give it to the sonic palette.
00:08:42:08 - 00:09:04:03
Unknown
But you can also hear just the quality. Again, Ken Lay, the engineer here. Just a masterstroke with this album heavily involved with the production, obviously. Now that's the entire band. That's not to say that that doesn't come with at a cost, because this album cost and at the time like $1.2 million. It's crazy how much they spent. Overall, that's got to be, what, ten, 20 million in today's dollars?
00:09:04:05 - 00:09:26:06
Unknown
Something like that. It's incredible. A lot it's a lot of money. So as you can hear like, oh, it's actually funny. It's really funny. Probably more than Asia I'm guessing. Oh yeah. But like I said like so that's a very catchy, you know, all of these songs were written. They said, what if we made an album that was all singles, like everything had the past and they were committed, even as they were all breaking up and cheating on each other.
00:09:26:06 - 00:09:44:16
Unknown
Right? And like, getting crazy high all the time, like, but I think committed to making this album that's just like all, all killer, no filler, you know. Right? Right. There's no skips, right? High level quality. So the record before this, which I believe is the, is the, the one they call the White Album, the first one with Stevie Nicks.
00:09:44:18 - 00:10:01:04
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. That was a huge hit. Was that even bigger than this, or is this bigger that this is bigger? Okay. That had Brandon on it, which is great. Yeah. Exactly. So but that record was big enough. I think that it fueled in the way the record industry was at the time, especially for these kind of bands that had that kind of appeal, where it almost became like, like your next project is like an endless budget.
00:10:01:10 - 00:10:17:14
Unknown
So if you're willing to take the commitment, you know what that can entail in terms of even with all without the accessory, stuff. But just like, what would that be? Well, as you mentioned, the drug use, but, I mean, and they also got into a bunch of engineering quandaries with some problems with the tape later on. Yeah, yeah, it cost a bunch.
00:10:17:14 - 00:10:35:11
Unknown
But it's just to say that, like when you, when you're coming off of a huge hit record like that and because of how much money these, these albums generate and how the industry was set up at the time, that that's how you got to these crazy budgets. And so in the right hands of people committed to making a just what I think is just a fantastic band effort.
00:10:35:11 - 00:10:55:01
Unknown
This was a bad at this point. I know they've gone through a lot of changes in the personnel before this, but I mean, you have like just individual compositions, but a collective will to make something great. Yeah. There's one song on the album that's written by all band members, but mostly it's by single band members, and it's kind of split between Lindsey Buckingham, Stevie Nicks and Christine McVie, who I think is underrated.
00:10:55:03 - 00:11:14:06
Unknown
Yeah, in general, Christine McVie, for sure. The personnel is just the band. It's John McVie on the bass, Lindsey Buckingham on guitars and vocals, Stevie Nicks on vocals, Nick Fleetwood on drums and percussion, and Christine McVie on keyboards, synthesizers and vocals. Let's get to the second track. This is, this is the this is the one, right?
00:11:14:06 - 00:11:40:05
Unknown
This is like the most recognized song. This even this second track, dreams, written by Stevie Nicks. It was their only number one hit as a band, Fleetwood Mac. But then it climbed the charts again in September 2020 after, an Idaho man was made a like a selfie video of himself. Oh, really? Longboarding down the highway. You don't remember this drinking Ocean Spray cranberry juice, listening to Stevie Nicks or to to dreams?
00:11:40:05 - 00:11:51:01
Unknown
Oh it's funny. Oh, man.
00:11:51:03 - 00:12:14:15
Unknown
Everything sounds me. Yeah. We often like to highlight how good the drums on all these sounds. Yeah. So just real quick. Snare dam. Here you go. Can you say we want your free? Yeah. Will I keep you down?
00:12:14:17 - 00:12:53:23
Unknown
Whistle whether you should play the way you feeling. But listen carefully to the sound of the loneliness. Like the heart beat that you made in the steel. Background vocals. Killin on this record. The guitars every sound. And again, I mean, I will put 1977 is the year that they perfected recording acoustic instruments. Yeah, those drums are just so beautifully recorded.
00:12:54:01 - 00:13:17:18
Unknown
Whose only real this is that way. Players only love you when they're playing. You say when they come in. So let's take a few things out here.
00:13:17:20 - 00:13:34:00
Unknown
When the rain wash, just to kind of enjoy these sounds, let's check out some drums.
00:13:34:02 - 00:13:50:07
Unknown
How gorgeous is that? Everything is just absolutely stunningly beautiful.
00:13:50:09 - 00:14:27:11
Unknown
I think. Very simple. Little. Everything wants to wrap your dreams. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Heavy, wet dreams. You like to sell dreams? You know, rain is like a heartbeat. The song itself is simple, but the lyrics are just so spot on for that tension that happens in a relationship with. Yeah, you know, especially when you're young, when you're like, is this working?
00:14:27:11 - 00:14:49:18
Unknown
Do I want freedom from this? I mean, she captures. Yeah. The fights I've had in my life. Right. Perfectly. It's just it's and and the feeling of it is so specific. And they nail it with the music. Yeah. The production, the songwriting again, just a simple form, a simple palette of really great sounding chords, but just produced to a place that takes you somewhere.
00:14:49:20 - 00:15:24:02
Unknown
Man, it's such a this is taking me back and just thinking about like, you know like not to be to boomers go, oh, we brought up we had a good boomer discussion a couple weeks ago with me. I said the word boomer more than I thought I was ever going to. We really leaned into it. Yeah. No, but like a time when like, one could listen to a, a song and and feel and think about an emotion and like how it affects the how the lyrics and the sound in a very simple way affects us, but in a very high quality way.
00:15:24:02 - 00:15:40:01
Unknown
Right. We're hearing all this stuff. It's so clear. It's so I hate to say it like this, but in a lot of ways it's so different than the way pop music is put out now, where everything is like you're being you're consuming it in a lower quality environment in terms of like the betrayed and all this kind of like everything's just kind of lower quality.
00:15:40:01 - 00:16:09:21
Unknown
It's coming faster. You're swiping through, there's a bunch of different emotions coming like this is kind of a breakup record or whatever, but even these individual songs, there's actually a lot of uplifting lyrics and stuff into to there's a lot of poignant stuff, but it's like stuff that you could just sit around and like, dream. I mean, it's like just takes makes a day of being bored where, like your emotions or if you remember that it comes from being bored and you wanted to talk to, you know, somebody about go on a day, try to do whatever, like just you could concentrate on one kind of feeling, right?
00:16:10:02 - 00:16:27:13
Unknown
It evokes a feeling. And so for me, it's like, you know, the record, all these great photographs, you know, the expressions like it's very intentional, it's very quality. And I mean, I know we got high quality stuff now, but I feel like the time of their being like one thing that people sort of rally around and connect on.
00:16:27:14 - 00:16:43:06
Unknown
Yeah. And you know, this record's out for like a year, everybody, it's on the radio and people are talking about it and not just the other stuff's coming on the radio. That's that's fantastic. And then takes you somewhere emotionally. Yeah. Now it's like everybody's segmented in their little place. And I know people, young people are discovering these records, which is great.
00:16:43:11 - 00:17:01:15
Unknown
Can you talk about your daughter and stuff? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because there's so much there. There's so much depth and interest. Yeah, man. Totally agree. And, it just continues this record. It just continues with hit after hit. The third track might be one of my favorite. I mean, this is top two of this album. This is Lindsey Buckingham's Never Going back again.
00:17:01:15 - 00:17:20:08
Unknown
So this was his sort of like answer to breaking up with Stevie Nicks. Yeah. Or then breaking up. And he admitted, it's a bit naive, but you can hear that.
00:17:20:10 - 00:17:44:02
Unknown
She broke down. Have you ever heard a guitar vocal duo that sounded quite like that? It's multiple guitars. Yeah, I think it's four with, four guitar tracks. Double vocals probably, or some kind of delay for.
00:17:44:04 - 00:18:16:06
Unknown
Me down one down and down. Two down. Never going back. Oh, great. Great songwriter. Yeah. And there's so much space in it. There's so much music happening. Yeah. Pretty bold for the third track. Yeah. Could you imagine something like this coming out now? This would be like put in the Americana, section genre.
00:18:16:08 - 00:18:24:17
Unknown
Oh, this track has one of the great endings to to a pop up track.
00:18:24:19 - 00:18:36:20
Unknown
Who? You don't know what it means to them.
00:18:36:22 - 00:18:49:13
Unknown
Come round, see me. Give.
00:18:49:15 - 00:19:09:19
Unknown
The man. What up. Come on now. Oh two. Down. It's just a few elements to it. And they keep coming back. And you're so happy that they're back to.
00:19:09:21 - 00:19:31:10
Unknown
That's all we need. Oh I love that ending. You know, I mean that that is kind of a perfect track. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's two minutes long. There's like. So there's like four lines of of lyrics. Yeah. And it's just no filler. Incredible guitar play, beautiful song structure. Yeah. Beautiful melody. Yeah. And you wrote down the ding ding ding.
00:19:31:10 - 00:19:45:16
Unknown
Just very simple. Yeah. Very simple. Never coming back. Yeah. Really really James Taylor was great at that to of like just putting in the we should do some JT we should do it for sure. Maybe just now that we're, hitting this out. As great as that, is it as natural as it sounds? I was just reading our notes here.
00:19:45:16 - 00:20:01:05
Unknown
I know about this. They, Lindsey couldn't hear the click track through the. And that's interesting. There's a click on this because we always think about, oh, during this time they were just playing and some people did. And some of these tracks are. But they're also like this kind of a track. Like I'm a kind of an anti click track guy.
00:20:01:07 - 00:20:14:14
Unknown
Yeah. But I don't think this track would have been as great if you didn't have the click track. You obviously you think so. I don't think so. Yeah. I mean it would have been fine and it would have, but like there's a precision that, that it gives like sometimes you don't say you need it but that can push it in another place.
00:20:14:14 - 00:20:31:23
Unknown
It's a tool and this is a tool. You don't use it all the time but apparently couldn't hear it. So the, Ken Kelly, the engineer duct tape. Also, it turns out duct tape. My dad was right. Duct tape works for everything. All right. The duct tape to his headphones, to his head. And put a beanie over so the sound wouldn't bleed through.
00:20:31:23 - 00:20:49:15
Unknown
Excellent. Oh, because he needed it up so loud. Sam, how come you never do that for this show? And then Lindsey kept it on for about three hours while they recorded take after take. When you need to go to the bathroom, they just unplug the headphones rather than take the whole thing off as well. There is. But I mean, that's what it is like, that kind of commitment to like, but what you get out of it, you'd never know.
00:20:49:15 - 00:21:03:07
Unknown
There was a click. You never know. He had a duct tape, beanie, headphone, yeah thing. And that it was an arduous 3 or 4 hours of just doing that. It just comes with this beautiful piece of art that can be consumed over and over again. So that's three tracks, Peter. That's three bangers in a row. Yeah. And it doesn't stop here.
00:21:03:07 - 00:21:27:09
Unknown
In fact, don't stop. Ask Bill Clinton about this. I thought this was the biggest hit, but dreams was. Yeah, yeah. I always thought because for a while this was like, oh, something different. Couldn't this is another, is that what brought it back was Bill Clinton. This was for like, I think the Clinton Gore. Right. They used this song, I believe, this is a Christine McVie song.
00:21:27:09 - 00:21:47:11
Unknown
Christine McVie, underrated songwriter on this. You're only classically trained. She's amazing. Yeah, we just lost a few a few, years ago. So how do you feel? She our buddy? The godfather, if you. Otto has a great video on Christine McVie. Oh, it's worth checking out. Oh, awesome. Yeah, yeah, we'll link to that in the, in the notes.
00:21:47:11 - 00:22:04:10
Unknown
So I think, how do you feel about this groove? And I'm like, I'm also a little controversial, and it doesn't feel the best. It doesn't feel bad. This is your best song. Feels great. But if you were to, I'd not even isolate like, first. I'll preface it by saying, would you call that a shuffle? Yeah, it's a shuffle.
00:22:04:10 - 00:22:24:07
Unknown
Is a scuffle a shuffle? Because I feel like I would. I've always been like, you see, the greatest drummer ever. No. But then, like, when you heard that isolated, you know him isolate on like, I mean, he's playing the hell out of those drops. He's a good drummer. They're a shuffle, though. This is a hard time because they think about the drummers that were that were doing that when our English had, you know, Mick Fleetwood.
00:22:24:07 - 00:22:41:07
Unknown
Right. And I'm not saying English musicians can't play a shuffle at all. That's a metal. But there is something about it. I remember I didn't really feel a shuffle until like, I think I saw B.B. King live when I was like 18 or something. Yeah. And I was just there for the soundcheck because I was playing at a festival that he was on in a in a different tent.
00:22:41:08 - 00:22:58:12
Unknown
You know. But I'll never forget his drummer. And I'm going to I forget who it was. I forget who who was drummer was in 1997, but warming up in soundcheck with a shuffle and I was like, what the fuck is that? Like, I knew what a shuffle right from Art Blakey and all that, but I'd never heard anything like a blues show.
00:22:58:12 - 00:23:19:18
Unknown
It was like a train coming at you in that in that stage, like it was so powerful and felt so like I started dancing at the soundcheck because it felt amazing. Yeah, yeah, this doesn't feel quite like that, right? But for this song, in this track, because this was going to be one of my quibble bits, but but in a way like how he's playing is perfect for this track, for the lyrics, for this.
00:23:19:18 - 00:23:32:01
Unknown
So yeah. This is the most soft pop on this album too, by the way.
00:23:32:03 - 00:23:48:04
Unknown
Because it's it's like it's a shuffle pattern. It's not bad. Yeah, man, that feels great if you bet, you know, because if it had a I don't know. Yeah. It could be a little bit deeper. Yeah. But it's definitely in the pocket and it definitely I don't know. And and then like his cross cymbal stuff later on and stuff is so good.
00:23:48:05 - 00:24:01:00
Unknown
It's a it's a great shuffle with a little bit of an English accent. We'll say that. But see, I beg to differ on the English. Okay. Because you say you have to be. I'm not saying you have to be anything, I'm just saying things are different. I'll just say Pino Palladino can definitely play a shuffle and a hard ass Mick Fleetwood can play.
00:24:01:00 - 00:24:19:21
Unknown
So I'm not saying this doesn't feel better. This is different than what I know here in scratch was right. Okay. As if that wasn't enough, that's track four now. We got four bangers in a row, basically, for singles in a row for songs that most people of, who are alive on the around know those songs. Then you got this.
00:24:19:23 - 00:24:49:09
Unknown
Oh, is another Lindsey Buckingham song, again, about his breakup with Stevie Nicks. Yeah, they do kind of an ask you to Stevie song never changed me. That I feel. Is this a I mean, he's a bit of a GMC commercial at this point, isn't it? Yeah. You Ford F-150 a little bit, yeah. And now Fleetwood definitely had that break on me.
00:24:49:09 - 00:25:14:08
Unknown
Yeah. Oh, you could go your own way. The Drive to September event ends August 31st. Lexus September to remember. That's, But great song. And but then now we now we get to I think a really great. Stevie has said she was particularly hurt by the line packing up. Shacking up is all you want to do. Oh, come on, it says, you know, it's it's right there on the paper.
00:25:14:08 - 00:25:34:13
Unknown
Sometimes breakups can be, tumultuous. Yeah. Could you imagine making an album with the lyrics, with the person? Yeah. It's hard when it's still kind of raw. That's great. That's great. Okay. This is, next one is songbird. This this is a very interesting it's gorgeous track. This is by, Christine McVie. And she's singing This is beautiful.
00:25:34:15 - 00:25:46:18
Unknown
She's playing piano as well. Obviously.
00:25:46:20 - 00:26:28:06
Unknown
For you. There'll be no more crime. Little meu chord. Yeah. For you. The song will be a lovely touch on the piano. Incredible. And I feel that when I'm. It's all one. I know that's right.
00:26:28:08 - 00:26:34:02
Unknown
And she has a really good touch.
00:26:34:04 - 00:26:52:18
Unknown
Gorgeous voice. So a record. So this was not recorded in Sausalito. They went over to, close by to Berkeley, to a hall that I've been to. I've played at Zeller Bach Hall. Oh, nice. I think the engineer had recorded and had recorded Joni Mitchell there, I believe. Or maybe he recorded her somewhere else, but he liked it.
00:26:52:19 - 00:27:14:23
Unknown
He like. No, no, no, I think was in that hall because he loved the sound in there. It was close by. Then Steinway nine for I would say a little quibble, but I didn't know that before. The pianos will have too little. And you can. Ken, I said in his autobiography that he placed a dozen roses on her piano and arranged three colored spotlights to illuminate them from above, to give her a I got to get them kind of get a vibe going, you know what I'm saying?
00:27:15:01 - 00:27:31:12
Unknown
Yeah. But it's so it's got a different sound. And a lot of people probably think that that's like an artificial, reverb and stuff very much in the hall. I'm sure the next track, The Chain, is the only Fleetwood Mac song, with songwriting credits given to all five members. It was cut together with bits and pieces of unfinished songs.
00:27:31:15 - 00:27:49:11
Unknown
So this is also a I mean, now we're at what we're at track seven seven, and this is seven in a row. Yeah, that are all. There's no incredible. There's no fillers on this record. I did confirm that. Oh.
00:27:49:12 - 00:28:09:19
Unknown
That's a bass drum sound. It's gorgeous.
00:28:09:21 - 00:28:20:02
Unknown
Listen to the wind blow. Watch the sunrise.
00:28:20:04 - 00:28:53:05
Unknown
This is very like run in the shadow. Like, you know, country music, Western music, Blues. Like it was that time when that influence on American pop music. Who? Never. That's the moment. Yep. Yeah. Incredible. Chorus. Yeah. Incredible hook. Great break. And then the harmony. You know, so simple and well executed. The well place in this discipline. There's a lot of discipline.
00:28:53:05 - 00:29:08:02
Unknown
And it makes me want to be all coked up all night long. Hey they play with a lot of discipline. That's a great band, man. It makes me want to join a band. I that's a whole different experience. No bands? No, there's no more. They are, but they're just not. They don't have $1.2 million budgets. And bands in high school.
00:29:08:02 - 00:29:27:06
Unknown
Do you ever do like it starts with a band, a band that she's got a band you want to join that she's an artist. That's the thing. It's just all artists now just doing their own Instagram stuff. But man, I just it brings me back to like playing with my friends. I had a band basements in high school and just like writing original songs and and not everybody's the greatest musician in the world.
00:29:27:06 - 00:29:40:17
Unknown
Not everybody's Tony Williams. But like, you make this thing with each other and you're kind of it's like the sum of the parts is greater than that. See, that's the thing. Can I go a little bit to do it? Okay, take two minutes. She's turning away from me. Two minutes I give you like I don't want to be.
00:29:40:20 - 00:30:00:23
Unknown
No, no, no. That's one thing that I feel like in jazz. As jazz musicians, we often overlook. There's not a lot of great examples of that. Great bands, but I'm gonna throw one out there called the Oscar Peterson Trio. And I would say that, like, as great as Oscar Peterson is and and I will, there's different iterations. I'm talking about a Thigpen, Ray Brown, Oscar Peterson sometimes you get the right combination.
00:30:00:23 - 00:30:16:12
Unknown
Where the parts are is, are are are add up. One plus one plus one equals 7000. Yeah. Instead of three. And I think in rock and pop in country and a lot of different things back, especially in this era, you talk about the Doobie Brothers, you talk about, you know, Steely Dan is a little dark. It's like, well, Steely Dan a band.
00:30:16:13 - 00:30:34:04
Unknown
It was two guys with like studio musicians around them. Yeah, but but I mean, you know, a bunch that I'm, you know, it's similar, like Stevie Wonder with Stevie Wonder. I mean, he had a band that he toured with, but he made a lot of that stuff himself with bringing different. There's definitely bands now, especially even in the contemporary, like Jazzy Jason, Senior Starkey, puppy.
00:30:34:04 - 00:30:50:15
Unknown
You got Vopak, you got all these people who do this kind of thing. And I think you had, I mean like 90s, you and the bad plus. Yeah, in the two that early 2000. Yeah. You know that's a band. Yeah. But even like the MQ. Yeah. That's like a great example of how that can work I think. Yeah.
00:30:50:16 - 00:31:07:20
Unknown
Or weather report the Headhunters. Oh whether port is going to show up on my one for later. Just putting that out there. Right. We're thinking like okay thanks for the two minutes. You're very I was well worth. So that's the chain. That's track seven. And that is a great course. You're right. Like that's one of those moments. And now we're out of singles.
00:31:07:20 - 00:31:25:13
Unknown
That's it. There's no more catchy songs. Oh, wait a second. Christine McVie has something to say about that. Oh, yeah, and that's her on the clap to the killer killing on clap.
00:31:25:15 - 00:31:50:19
Unknown
So to me, incredible I so she wrote this like, not about the guy playing bass. She was about her new boyfriend, her newly ex-husband. He's got the bass on it. And then she felt bad. And then it was a single. Yeah, it was one of the four singles that they released. Oh, yeah. So what? She. She told everyone that it was actually about her dog.
00:31:50:20 - 00:32:08:07
Unknown
She didn't want to feel jealous. You love make you make love and fun. Little doggy. But when John eventually found out he didn't show up to the studio all day, I went to matter. They had $1 million budget. Also, it's. Kill him. Yeah. He's got to be like, that's so good, dude. Damn it. She's getting all the publishing.
00:32:08:09 - 00:32:25:10
Unknown
Incredible song. You make love and that's number seven. Incredible song. That's right, that's right. There's nine tracks. That's eight in a row. That's eight in a row. Absolute bangers. And you know what's so cool about this? So think about this. You're listening to this on vinyl, right. Now we're on to the side B obviously, but we're so thick into it.
00:32:25:10 - 00:32:38:12
Unknown
What normally used to happen on side to not side B side to some dips. Yeah some dips. And it was like that first I saw was the chain. That first track on side two really was like make or break. Whether or not you're even gonna ever turn it over and it's the chain on this one. So they're doing okay.
00:32:38:17 - 00:32:52:16
Unknown
They're doing okay. Yeah. There are a couple here. We're like, we're going to we're definitely going to skip over. You can skip anything I don't want to know. And oh daddy because we're going to go straight to the last track okay. What are we. Are there 11 tracks or nine. What did I say there. 11 there 11 okay.
00:32:52:16 - 00:33:07:14
Unknown
That's right. So for times sake, we're going to go to the last track, which is like, oh, daddy, oh daddy, he's funny, but yeah, this is good. This woman okay. Oh, yeah. This is.
00:33:07:16 - 00:33:10:18
Unknown
My.
00:33:10:20 - 00:33:37:12
Unknown
Oh. They do Bible major third of their. That was just like a fifth chord. Yeah. They're gonna go this the Stevie next song take you. This is literally about take your brain like coke groupies. Yeah in LA. Yeah, yeah, it sounds like that the title goes up, but the first line, I mean, this is like, takes you to LA.
00:33:37:14 - 00:34:00:00
Unknown
Like, you know what that street smells like. The first one is rock on gold dust, woman. Take your silver spoon and dig your grave like she was appreciative. I know, but man, I mean to make something so ugly, so beautiful lyrically. You know, that's some slick ass lyrics. There are some rats that love to go down.
00:34:00:01 - 00:34:21:01
Unknown
That dope dope bro. I think that's dope right now. I don't think so. Down to your lover. I got to see her play this live. Last year when she was on tour with my daughter, I, she put on a beautiful gold shawl. She had so many shawl changes. Yeah. So she was like cape after. Came back in witchy cape after witchy cake.
00:34:21:01 - 00:34:47:22
Unknown
You. Oh, I love like secondary dominants. Secondary first and g over B baby. Do you know how to pick up a little modal interchange going on there of. Yeah. Gorgeous man. So the interesting thing like I'd say throughout this record, like it's very easy for jazzers some jazzers to or classical musicians or whatever be like, oh, this is so such a simplistically, harmonically simplistic record.
00:34:48:03 - 00:35:10:19
Unknown
Like the harmonies, there's so much like one for five, you know, one down to the like. It's just like, oh, that's easy stuff. But there's like and it is very simple in terms of like, you could learn this if you had a rudimentary, you know, or beginner understanding of harmony on like guitar, a piano, you can play these chords, but the placement of them, the timing of how they hook up with the melody and the lyrics and stuff, I really think is kind of genius.
00:35:10:20 - 00:35:30:16
Unknown
Of course it is, you know, and and then the repetition of something great, you know, like, but not repeating it too many times, waiting the right amount of time and then coming back like the, the construction of this is great. So like, you don't need a whole bunch of fancy alter chords and all this kind of stuff. That one chord, which I didn't think was a move at first.
00:35:30:16 - 00:35:46:22
Unknown
And upon listening to it, I'm like, that's not it's almost a mood. Yeah. It's music. Yeah. But like the G, it's actually a G7 over B, I believe up to the C, which is a normal movement, but it sounds so like otherworldly. The placement of it, the, the patience to get there and then to put it in there.
00:35:47:00 - 00:36:07:10
Unknown
Beautiful. Yeah. Okay. Let's do some categories. Peter, what's your death soundtrack? Oh. You're moving along, man. Let me let me find you on your phone alone. It's all good, baby. Let's just add on tracks. Is that on page one or page 35? Here it is on page 35. Okay. Okay. I got never going back again, I love that.
00:36:07:10 - 00:36:28:06
Unknown
Can we listen to that just a little bit? I'll. Oh not again please. That's what you're going with. Yeah. All right. This is like okay. Even though most of the band isn't on this record, it's just Lindsey Buckingham made this. I could listen to this every day the rest of my life. She wrote down me in. I would like to hear Peter Martin arrangement this.
00:36:28:07 - 00:36:44:09
Unknown
I know that's another thing. I could totally I could totally place I think I might do that. I think that's a great call. I mean, there's honestly, like, pretty much every track on this album could be. Yeah, a desert island, if you're into that kind of songwriting. This is my when I'm with you and never been that way.
00:36:44:11 - 00:37:04:14
Unknown
What can I say? I like pop music and the vibe of this is just my speed. Yeah, like, everything about it was great. I mean, it's iconic. Yeah. Detail details. Incredible. Okay. Apex moment. I think that that what I was taught was the chord. That chord I just pointed out, if you want to hear it again, I put it.
00:37:04:16 - 00:37:31:22
Unknown
I'll show it. You pick that forever. This is gold dust. Of course I am, mouse. So this is all the going through the course, the little segue part. Why did you make you cry? You make you break down. Shatter you. So in the key of D major. And then we go right to doggy flat. Oh, the G7 over beat you know down series and then back.
00:37:32:00 - 00:37:50:22
Unknown
That's what's great. There's not like the rule of thirds really works good that but it did. You do read it in sweet. Sing it again. How does that go. Oh it's very it's very like bluesy, very kind of country. I don't even know what you call it, but, you know, it's got, it's got that got that vibe to it.
00:37:51:03 - 00:38:08:02
Unknown
My apex moment is the first chorus of the chain where things kick in. Yeah, listen to the wind blows. Watch the sun rise.
00:38:08:04 - 00:38:20:00
Unknown
And run in the shadows. Yeah. You love them. You like.
00:38:20:02 - 00:38:40:22
Unknown
And then you know when the bass kicks in there. And then the fact that you make these just, like. Don't, don't. That's all we want. That's all the people want. Yeah. We could have been like don't but do doo bit deeper. No. Don't need for all that, bespoke Spotify playlist. What do you got. What did I do here?
00:38:41:00 - 00:39:00:19
Unknown
I do you see yours is better albums that hurt so good or yesterday's gone, yesterday's gone. It's. Yeah. And albums it hurts so good. It's good I like this I have, drugs, not hugs. That's great. Thank you. Yeah. Very good. Up next, what do you got? I got, Carole King Tapestry, because I actually like to nominate that for not up next for us to have on the pot.
00:39:00:20 - 00:39:13:16
Unknown
We should do it. Yeah, yeah, an episode on it, but also heavy weather, which came out. So which is a great way. I believe it's the same year, maybe a year off, but we were talking about bands and that's exactly what I was thinking about. Like what is there in jazz or jazz adjacent? That's a real band, especially around that time.
00:39:13:21 - 00:39:33:12
Unknown
Great. That's a great song. I wouldn't put that on the level sonically as this in terms of the engineering. This is off the charts, but great band record, great individual kind of coming together for the for the whole, you know what you got I have Asia oh well that's just to hear them next to each other same year in competition with each other.
00:39:33:13 - 00:39:51:07
Unknown
Great call, Captain Obvious. Thank you. Quite a bit. What do you got? Well, I mean, I really I have two funny ones, but they're not. Well, the first one is we talked about the shuffle on. Don't stop. Yeah, but if we don't think of that as a shuffle, like I've come around to that being like is what it is.
00:39:51:07 - 00:40:05:20
Unknown
It is what it is. And I think it kind of fits perfectly on that track. So I'm going to actually take that one off. But this is the funny one. Is was, is there just too much cocaine and general drama on this? Right. I mean, that's what I had to I had way too much cocaine question mark, but actually it worked.
00:40:05:20 - 00:40:26:10
Unknown
Well, okay. Let's kids. But first of all, don't don't listen to this. Don't listen to him. Don't. We can. Neither can Freud. This is not medical advice. This is not parenting advice. Telling anybody to take drugs. I'm just saying, like, it. Did it really make it worse? But I've heard. I actually heard conflicting things, like some of the members of the group over the years, as this is likely to happen all the time.
00:40:26:14 - 00:40:42:13
Unknown
We're like, we would have never had it not been so effed up. The whole thing and all this wildness that would have never happened. And then I think it was Lindsey Buckingham was one of them basically said like, oh no, we we were going to get to this. Even if everything was cool with everybody and no drugs or we just it would have been quicker.
00:40:42:15 - 00:40:57:21
Unknown
Right. So there might have been some. Yeah. Yeah yeah. No no no no, we're gonna put inconclusive on those quick little bits I think. So I don't really have much quibble bits with this. Whenever you have, like, an album that's that close to perfect, it's hard to say, like, oh, there's a quibble. Okay, I have a little bit with you say close to perfect.
00:40:57:21 - 00:41:21:03
Unknown
Yeah. So it's not perfect. I don't think any album is perfect. No words of Bill Evans. We'll get to that later, but I don't think any albums perfect. This is close though for a if no albums perfect, then what is a pop rock album in the late 70s? Yeah, with these like pop hits. Yeah. I mean, these three songwriters like Christine McVie and Stevie Nicks crushed this album so hard.
00:41:21:06 - 00:41:46:03
Unknown
Yeah. And like, I just think it's it's as good as you can get for this for that kind of thing. Is it Asia for like, jazz existence now? Of course. No, but I mean Wayne Shorter. Steve got on it so it couldn't be. But there's something really special about this whole thing. Right. But I think, too, that it's like, I think all like records that even get into the category of fools like us talking about these, like perfect or not like that are at that level.
00:41:46:03 - 00:42:16:07
Unknown
That would even warrant the discussion without people being like you idiots. They might not agree, but they everybody knows this. This album is talked about in that, in that kind of vein. I do think there's a lot of luck involved, just like creating anything great, like artists, like we make different things and like sometimes everything comes together. And I think when you have this combination of the band at this time and whether or not the break ups and the cocaine and all, I mean, you can debate whether or not that, but everything happened with a huge budget, so you could like, take the time to get through all that and then get over all the
00:42:16:07 - 00:42:31:05
Unknown
technologic, all, problems they have with the tape getting messed up and all that and still get the thing out there and the pictures. Well, we're going to get to that in a second. But I mean, there's there is once you say there's some luck involved. Absolutely. Okay. They did a lot of luck. They did the work. Yeah.
00:42:31:06 - 00:42:45:07
Unknown
Yeah. But they did do the work. Like like I hate to say, but like I don't know if this record could be made today. I don't know if the world of the record industry is. I mean, if someone could make it, I don't think it could be record of the year, not for 1 million to 1. Definitely not know.
00:42:45:07 - 00:43:00:19
Unknown
You could make a record like this for a lot less. I don't know, but I mean, I just don't think it would have the kind of potential appeal it could even get out into the market. Like it's just so fragmented and like for people to rally is, you know, I don't know, that's for another episode, right? It's no matter what you got.
00:43:00:21 - 00:43:17:19
Unknown
I'm one with the five because I was totally paralyzed on the. This is not a snobby record. Right. But this is what we're snobs and we love this record, so everything we like has to be somewhat snobby. I mean, are we music snobs? Are you a music? Yeah. Do you love this record? I do okay. Is it one of the most popular records of all time?
00:43:17:19 - 00:43:38:01
Unknown
Yes. Okay. So that puts it a five. It's really inconclusive. I think it's a two. Is it better than Kobe? So it's the kind of blue. Maybe I'm drunk. I had no it some days. You know what? Six days out of seven I got kind of blue. But one day out of seven, I want this. Is that. Sue me.
00:43:38:01 - 00:43:52:15
Unknown
Am I so wrong for saying, well, why are you laughing? Because how many babies do you have? How many equal? Or maybe. What did we say at the beginning? We're. This is a banger. We were pulling out straight home. So of course it's going to be a maybe with Kobe. There's no John Coltrane on it. So it's a no, month where you got.
00:43:52:16 - 00:44:11:14
Unknown
No. But how far off of a no is it for, you know, like, not far enough. Okay. Not far enough. Jazz police. Not far enough. Yes, please. No, it's not far at all. I it's a whole it's like a different it's a whole different animal, isn't it? I mean, maybe it's like a pop record in the late 70s is different than 1959 jazz classic.
00:44:11:14 - 00:44:31:04
Unknown
Like, it's just a whole, you know what we need to do? We need to change that better than Kobe. Like it needs to be categories for like, if we're talking about records in the 70s, it has to be like better than Asia or or we were to find some some market for similar. Is it better than because it's always been orange Asia?
00:44:31:06 - 00:44:49:19
Unknown
What's going on? What's going on? Songs in the key of Light. Love supreme. Yeah. Are you mocking me? No, no, no. Okay, okay. Well, we can talk about this after the episode. We got people waiting on us in the. Is it better than Kobe? Asia. What's going on? Songs. The key of life or love Supreme? No, no.
00:44:49:19 - 00:45:10:18
Unknown
Okay. Not all of them. Accouterments. Ten. So I had 9.5 because I'm still like, I don't know if there's a perfect, but I mean, I find no fault with this, this this picture in particular is incredible. This is an iconic picture and these are fun ones, from the same session compositionally, like the looks on their face, the he looks like Marty Feldman in Young Frankenstein.
00:45:10:18 - 00:45:32:17
Unknown
There is that Mick Fleetwood I don't even know who's who know. I think that's McVie. Oh, that's McVie. Okay. But I mean, just like, Stevie Nicks. Look, Catherine looking. Oh, wait, no, that is Mick Fleetwood. Yeah, yeah, with the crazy I, I mean, the hat, like the, I mean, the intentionality, but then just getting the playfulness of this or maybe the hatred of each other.
00:45:32:17 - 00:45:45:09
Unknown
That picture I. Who knows, but it's just like you could just sit and listen to the record and look at the same damn photo, and it'd be fun, right? I mean, that photographer had the best gig in the world. Yeah, I think they got Ansel Adams in for this. They just. I was part of their $1.2 million. Unbelievable.
00:45:45:09 - 00:46:02:23
Unknown
And this one's almost better. Look at the form. Okay, so this is on the inside, right? Look at how many pictures, by the way, are from the session. We don't do that anymore. We definitely don't do that. But like the composition, this one. Two. I mean, come on. Amazing. Well, this was fun. Park director. A little bit.
00:46:02:23 - 00:46:11:03
Unknown
A little bit different here for the art director. Here for the art director. So that's, at the end, everyone, our dear listener, thanks for listening to. You'll hear it.
00:46:11:03 - 00:46:12:03
Unknown
You'll hear.
00:47:41:06 - 00:48:19:21
Unknown
Boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo. The.
00:48:19:23 - 00:49:28:13
Unknown
Day.
00:49:28:15 - 00:50:27:05
Unknown
The benefit. The boo boo boo boo boo.
00:50:27:07 - 00:50:33:00
Unknown
We.
00:50:33:02 - 00:50:53:09
Unknown
Need.
00:50:53:11 - 00:50:57:02
Unknown
You.
00:50:57:04 - 00:51:24:01
Unknown
To.