00:00:00:00 - 00:00:20:18
Unknown
Hey, Peter. Hey, Adam. Hey. Instead of our regular theme song today. Because we're going to be doing a B3 episode. Oh, really, I didn't notice. Yeah. Why don't we have, They're going to play a new theme for us. Well. Hello there. Hi. How about this? Hey. Oh.
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Unknown
I'm Adam Ennis, and I'm Peter Martin, and you're listening to the you'll hear podcast. Is that Latin music? I don't know, I don't speak Greek. That's good. All Greek to me. Okay. Oh, Greek. Brought to you today by open studio. That open studio jazz.com for, Oh. Your jazz
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Unknown
lesson needs. Sorry. I should have prepared you for that.
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Unknown
Larry? Yeah. Welcome to the show, Larry. Peter. Peter, I know you. This is Adam. So great to be here. Nice to introduce the band. Okay. Yeah. Larry, you've been with us here for an incredible two days in the
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Unknown
studio. Yeah, it feels like longer, but it's been. It's been great. Yeah, we've had a blast. We're, We're making a B3 course here at Open Studio with.
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Unknown
We've done made it. Truly, I would say it is made by time, guys. That's right. That's right. But we thought we could bring you in on the podcast to talk about your favorite organ tracks, because we we have a lot of listening sessions right here. We talk about our favorite, all kinds of our favorite tracks, and we realize we never have hit our favorite B3 tracks.
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Unknown
Really? Yeah. Kind of an impossible task. There's there's so many and a wide range of music that, that the organ finds its way in, but, yeah, if anyone's up for it, it's you. Well, I would say let's go. So right here we've got, we've got Larry's bespoke playlist all bespoke it right here for some of your favorite folk.
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Unknown
And I think we're going to start at a very appropriate place I like that, which is, the, the incredible Jimmy Smith and this is oh no babe from Organ Grinder Swing. Let's have a gritty take on ramps literally going, oh.
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Unknown
Going on babe. And, and oh.
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Unknown
Oh. Wow.
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Unknown
Oh, my. Oh, really? Yep. Wow. Chills. Yeah. Oh. You know what.
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Unknown
I don't think that fingering it actually I think they don't know. That in the annex. Oh it's.
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Unknown
Yeah. Oh Kenny Burrell. Oh.
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Unknown
Hi.
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Unknown
You don't hear a lot of that hi hat shuffle these days. Oh, and it's it's it's great. It's no different from, the drummer he normally had who was.
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Unknown
I'm embarrassed. I can't remember the name. San Francisco got. Like hitting that up. Get up. Triple. Right. Okay. Yeah. Come in and on that. Okay okay okay. Oh.
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Unknown
The breathing when I talk about the expression pedal. Yeah. See Jimmy. So a yeah.
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Unknown
The Jimmy like this way of comping. Did he create that or what was the influence on him there? Do you know about that? Because he was definitely influential with it. I know everybody picked that up.
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Unknown
I think so I think after Jimmy Smith,
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Unknown
like it became a thing in this whole sound. Right? We were talking about in the chorus, the whole the whole drawbar sound of this, you know, with the added percussion. It's there's some exceptions. Mel Ryan, who played organ with West before Jimmy. Yeah. Followed a different path. Yeah, sonically. And also, vocabulary.
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Unknown
From the Milwaukee. Yes. Yeah.
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Unknown
Feel soft to me. But the bass still speaks.
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Unknown
Maybe No it's gorgeous. Yeah. Jimmy would keep that mic. They would keep the mic open I Rudy's I think it's probably Rudy's. Yeah. So you also got the key click of the organ from the open mic. Nice.
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Unknown
Yeah. Boom boom boom boom.
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Unknown
Common tones. Yeah.
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Unknown
Minor for.
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Unknown
I still can't get over that. I had a feel that that's. I would say he's committed. So, Tim.
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Unknown
Woof.
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Unknown
Yeah, but how do you do? Oh, he's in a flat. Ham. Wasn't it? Oh.
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Unknown
I mean, Joey got close to duplicating some of his weird, touch and fingering, but nobody. Yeah. Can't. Really imitated, though. Yeah.
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Unknown
Every turnarounds mean you need to. Yeah, yeah, it's all been different. Yeah, it's a little different. And it's such a great lesson, actually. Yeah. Like those turnarounds you. Oh, no. Jimmy is not afraid of the big scale. No, no he's not. And the more I think about it, it really does help to hear the key clicking from the open mind.
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Unknown
Right? There's an attack. The hitting,
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Unknown
Now, how close are you set up? It sounds very much so. I think it's the same. Yeah.
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Unknown
The blue. Now, why does that work so well when he's doing the turnaround and it's not even the same as the bass coming up, and it still works. You know, there's been different every time I just turn around. So. Yeah.
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Unknown
Hey. Oh. Great. He's like Yeah. The high hats all is important now. So yeah, I set it up, but it does set like it builds. It makes everything go a little foreshadowing. What I was saying about the turnaround. Yeah, it's like a really useful lesson that you have all of this leeway in those moments, especially. Yeah, those turnaround moments to do different things.
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Unknown
Right. And just all Q.
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Unknown
Oh, shoot, I heard a Noncore. Tony. Yeah, I mean, that's understandable. Like, I know. This might fade, you know, might be one of those. We don't know. Yeah, yeah. We don't know what. And blessed. Oh right. You set the bar high. That's the start. Now that's a pretty high bar. Let's go. Let's go in a little bit different vein.
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Unknown
You know, I was really kind of surprised by this. This is Duke Ellington. This is the New Orleans sweet opening track. Blues for New Orleans. And on organ is, while Bill Davis, while Bill Davis,
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Unknown
This is a totally different sound. Yeah. So. Yep. And. Later in the track, when he pulls out more stops and gets the Leslie going, I think he does on this track. That's more of what I think of when I, when I think of wild Bill. But
00:10:05:23 - 00:10:09:12
Unknown
maybe.
00:10:09:14 - 00:10:10:02
Unknown
Bill.
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Unknown
I don't know this album at all, you know. So. Yeah. Well, I used
00:10:16:00 - 00:10:27:19
Unknown
to back in the day a lot. I had the LP. Yeah. I haven't heard in years to good record. I definitely kind of overlook Duke Ellington later. Yeah.
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Unknown
Does he have any chorus or if brother with them. Yes. He's got a. Like a yeah he's got something going on.
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Unknown
But but he doesn't have percussion. He's got some of the highs out. Yeah. He's got a high stop or 2000.
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Unknown
Oh.
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Unknown
Whoa. Boom boom boom. And you know I'm.
00:11:04:23 - 00:11:11:20
Unknown
Up.
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Unknown
Oh, here he goes. 000.
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Unknown
To me he comes, he's coming. Reminds me of Duke's riding a little bit the way I do. Where I jump, he goes. So everything is starting to kind of swirl and open.
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Unknown
Yeah. Now he's got the Leslie going and
00:11:34:22 - 00:11:50:15
Unknown
opened up the bars, and there's a bassist. Yeah. So he's doing that locked hands thing. Yeah. Yeah.
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Unknown
He,
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Unknown
You know me.
00:12:03:23 - 00:12:08:10
Unknown
He.
00:12:08:12 - 00:12:18:06
Unknown
Hit me. In.
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Unknown
Oh, I skip ahead a little bit. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Fine.
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Unknown
I.
00:12:44:13 - 00:13:12:05
Unknown
Yeah. It sounds like it's only the horns. Yep. He's a big band figure. Yeah. Okay.
00:13:12:06 - 00:13:18:20
Unknown
We we.
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Unknown
That's blues from New Orleans. Yeah, I'm from the New Orleans. We do Duke Ellington while Bill Davis. Yeah, on the Hammond organ. Why don't we move along here to, something a little bit different. This is from Ray Charles. Now, this is an album that you hipped us to this week. Yeah. You know, it's the other one. The Moanin track starts right out with with,
00:14:13:05 - 00:14:37:07
Unknown
Ray, why don't you go to that one instead of, the one mint julep? Okay. It takes a minute for Ray to get in there. So let's check out. You can hear, the really raw sound of, I think, a non Leslie, like, it was, a speaker that just had no rotating speaker, no movement at all, just raw, almost like transistor.
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Unknown
You kind of sound. And it's just you just all the more reliant on one's own feel, you know? So this is Ray Charles genius plus soul equals jazz. This is arrangements by Quincy Jones and Ralph Burns. And this is Bobby Timmons moment.
00:15:00:06 - 00:15:03:22
Unknown
To.
00:15:04:00 - 00:15:08:11
Unknown
Show.
00:15:08:23 - 00:15:42:14
Unknown
No percussion. Yeah, I think. They're nasty. It's really, Yeah, it's super raw, a little crazy going to space. We're in outer space. You said something in the course we were talking about. First you said you can pretty much get anywhere with just Ray. Yeah, which I think is so true. I mean, yeah.
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Unknown
Back in the day.
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Unknown
And.
00:16:16:09 - 00:16:39:20
Unknown
Drive. As does. Yeah, yeah. People are too scared to go this dry. And totally. They're not like, they don't have the courage now to record this drive. Oh! Whoa oh.
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Unknown
Oh!
00:16:45:19 - 00:16:55:16
Unknown
So sick, so.
00:17:00:22 - 00:17:09:00
Unknown
Grumpy. Yeah.
00:17:09:02 - 00:17:23:16
Unknown
And that's Ray Charles genius for soul. Because jazz that is going into my listening playlist. Yeah. Amazing. Quincy Jones to incredible. All right, let's go to something.
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Unknown
Probably a little bit more familiar to most, I think, like, straight ahead jazz fans. And this is Larry Young's unity. This is one of the great albums of the 1960s.
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Unknown
Monk's dream.
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Unknown
Oh. Woody Shaw, Joe Henderson and Elvin Jones. But this one's just trio suggests with or just duo duo Larry. Okay. No guitar.
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Unknown
Just the decision to have no guitar. Very modern, you know? Yeah. So much space. No. Very light bass. Yeah. No pedals. He never did pedals. Not maybe until the, like, emergency days. Oh, yeah. Maybe. Yeah, but
00:18:12:22 - 00:18:18:01
Unknown
then he had a bass player then. Anyways, I think, I think that's obviously with Elvin Jones. No
00:18:18:01 - 00:18:21:20
Unknown
I did you I'm like records time of the essence.
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Unknown
That's right. I was.
00:18:28:03 - 00:18:56:07
Unknown
Now this is Jimi's. Three dry bars. Yeah same as Jimmy Smith but I think it's a different vibrato. Oh, this is the C1. Oh, that sounds like. Yeah, it's a little less a little less wavy. Yeah. And still percussion. The fifth percussion. Definitely the fifth percussion. And he was like ooh. But this fourth, fourth. This is where you hear that.
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Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Oh I remember when I first heard this record when I was like 14 or 15, I had no business. I was like, I was trying to, like, transcribe those voices. And I took I kind of had a little different on piano. I was like, damn it, I still don't have, you know, it's so great.
00:19:15:00 - 00:19:37:18
Unknown
And the time feels so loose. I think it would be constrained by. Yeah, heavy pedal thing. Yeah. So, like, it's very connected that bass you have it, it makes it so conversational with velvet. Yeah. They were just having this dance to get that will know that Elvin Jones is doing some best Elvin shit right now. You're very well.
00:19:37:18 - 00:19:48:05
Unknown
Very good. Oh. Oh, through fifth.
00:19:48:07 - 00:19:55:11
Unknown
And also listen to his pedal. Used to.
00:19:55:12 - 00:20:14:13
Unknown
Do. And I don't know about y'all. This is so hard today, but it is really easy to to learn. To play the stays in the same. So. We.
00:20:14:15 - 00:20:31:22
Unknown
Think boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boop boop.
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Unknown
Oops. 000000. It's so funny because. With Larry Young, I don't get pianist references. I think the horn players, you know, I think of like like Wayne Shorter ish and. Yeah. And Sonny. Yeah. So cool. Great stuff. Oh, yeah. Oh the Mixolydian. Oh the. Oh.
00:21:10:10 - 00:21:16:05
Unknown
The straight diminished.
00:21:16:07 - 00:21:21:14
Unknown
Anytime.
00:21:21:16 - 00:21:57:13
Unknown
Say dangerous for me to listen to this. There's certain people that I, you know, actively stop listening to them because I just don't want to try anymore to to do it. Yeah. Because it's it's futile. Yeah. It's the reason why I stopped listening to Oscar Peterson years ago. Yeah. And, and and Bill Evans, I really don't consciously think these days to put on certain records because of how long it took me to try to get away from their influence, because you can't help but try to, like, quit that.
00:21:57:13 - 00:22:26:12
Unknown
Yeah. It's going to come back me right back. And it's never as clean as Oscar, is it? It's never as clean. But is it like because you're it starts to creep into your playing kind of unconscious. Yeah it does. And I and I don't want that to happen anymore. Just what would you say. Because it gets in the space of what your story is or because you feel like it's I think I, I'm what I really want to do is, is is I mean, it's it's so arrogant for anybody to say I don't, you know, I want to stop listening to Bill Evans because if I do, I'll sound like.
00:22:26:12 - 00:22:55:14
Unknown
But now you won't. You'll never sound like Bill Evans. You'll never have his touch and never have a sound. Yeah, you'll never have his ideas. But, Yeah. I was playing at the Village Gate years ago. Yeah. And in walks, in walks, Paul Blanc, who I liked. I didn't know much about him, but I respected him, and I never met him before, and he was listening.
00:22:55:14 - 00:23:15:14
Unknown
And he comes right up to me as if we were already in the conversation. And he goes, yeah, yes, I think so. I started because you know what I think you ought to do? You should collect up all your favorite records and throw them out the window. And he said that to me when I was about 28, maybe already.
00:23:15:14 - 00:23:32:03
Unknown
I'm kind of on the scene of that. Yeah, maybe I was a little younger, but I was, you know, starting to make a name around New York and stuff, and I was maybe a little hurt at the same time. But then I was like, you want to get some coffee? And, you know, we hung out, but, I thought about it later, and I've been thinking about it ever since.
00:23:32:03 - 00:23:55:02
Unknown
It's like, wow. Yeah. I mean, maybe he had wooden had said that if he hadn't heard some germ of originality. One of those. Yeah. You know. Yeah. In my playing that to to to say, you know, you got it. You know you don't need those people. Yeah. Forever. Find your own thing in school and I've only and it was Paul Bley, you know, who had their own thing more than Paul Blatt.
00:23:55:04 - 00:24:16:10
Unknown
Right. So who started out sounding like Bud Powell. That's right. You know. So I think about that all the time. It's very cool. And Jim Hall said a similar thing when I told him that, a friend of mine, just had a habit of looking for every example of Wynton Kelly on record. And I was telling Jim this and he said,
00:24:16:12 - 00:24:31:06
Unknown
It's interesting, but, I mean, after a while, don't you kind of get the point, right? Is what he said right? And in the case of Jim Kelly, I mean, he was sort of one of the great artists, but he wasn't one of these guys like Trane who. Yeah, you know, year by year. Yeah. Like, he's got a thing.
00:24:31:06 - 00:24:50:00
Unknown
He's got a thing that was like, it's great. He's the greatest thing. But it was it's like, don't you kind of get the point, move on, you know? Yeah, yeah. And I thought, wow, that's deep. So how do you temper that with just your like everyday ongoing. You're in your car driving around. You're on the road like, you're musical.
00:24:50:00 - 00:25:14:06
Unknown
Like what do you listen to? It's vast and it's often not jazz at all. Yeah, right. I mean, because we love harmony. We love classical music. We love, we love. I mean, Herbie said, you know, it's all about Ravel, right? I mean, yeah, and and, so, you would that, but could somebody, like, could you go up to Herbie and be like, you know, at a gig and be like, Herbie, you sound great.
00:25:14:06 - 00:25:32:17
Unknown
But by the way, the Ravel, right? Yeah. Like what? No. Like, is that what it is for him, though? At the. He already has. He already has. Like, where does Ravel? Obviously we know where Herbie start. And you I mean talk about Wayne Kelly. That was a huge influence on Herbie. Right. But we don't go hear him now and be like, are frozen in a way, because he probably did give that up.
00:25:32:17 - 00:25:59:10
Unknown
I think it's for me, it's about not over listening to to to piano to piano players were organ players for one thing, right? Because we have to be influenced by everything. Yeah. Kestrel music. Music from other countries. Yeah. Cash and music, great singers. And we have, you know, I think ultimately what we're doing as non singers and as non breathing.
00:25:59:14 - 00:26:40:20
Unknown
Yeah. Well is try to sound like we're breathing you know. So I think that's one big reason for listening to horns and to and singers and people who have to breathe. Yeah. In order to phrase and play I mean who I mean between guitar players and piano players, where the were the most, you know, as Ron Blake is to say, about about, Oscar Peterson that he had diarrhea of the hands or is I just have plain old diarrhea and, and, and, and, you know, so I think it's really about getting away from your instrument.
00:26:41:00 - 00:27:00:17
Unknown
Yeah. Thinking about how can I get an organ, you know, how can I, how can I, what's an orchestral move that I could make? Yeah. You know, what would Nelson Riddle do with the flutes or a vocal move? What's. Yeah. What can I do with a melody here? So that's how we transcend the so-called limitations of our instrument, right?
00:27:00:18 - 00:27:25:16
Unknown
Well, what about you talked about breathing. How much? As opposed to being at the piano when you're at the organ, the right foot. Like how much that does that get into supplemental breathing or it's all the fats you know, so much about, so much about the pedal. Yeah. You know, because otherwise it's just here. You just never, never move, no dynamics, you know, and this is always going to be that volume if you don't move anything.
00:27:25:18 - 00:27:45:16
Unknown
Yeah, but you're always playing like that when you're doing that for dramatic play I gotcha. No but but you know, it is what it is in rock and roll or in or in a suit song where the dynamics aren't that important. Yeah. You know, you can just leave it there and it'll sound fine, but, you know, that's why we're always trying to manipulate the draw bars and.
00:27:45:16 - 00:28:08:05
Unknown
Yeah. And, make this thing, you know, I didn't really mentioned I wasn't making shows out on a once during the burn less when I was talking about stacked fifths. You know, this, this, this, this kind of. I wrote a tune with these.
00:28:08:07 - 00:28:29:18
Unknown
Just two notes. Right. But each of these notes have a fifth, have fifth on top or below them. And then can you play just one note on the new. So there's like the fundamental. Right. And then it's yeah. And then this. So this gives you four. It's like a yeah it's like a minor. What is nine or something or a minor seven.
00:28:29:19 - 00:28:49:01
Unknown
Is that it. Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Takes four. It takes four fingers to play this. Yeah two fingers to play this. So of four all kind of. You.
00:28:49:03 - 00:29:14:10
Unknown
So I'm just as influenced by someone like Joe Allen or I think about Joe Allen at the organ. Yeah, he's kind of feels like an organ player. Yeah. You know those duets that he did with. Or if you ever seen the pictures, volume pedals all over the place, it was all about expressing, right? No matter what keyboard expression pedal, you know, with these, you know, potentially very cold, you know, synthesizers that that don't have any dynamics.
00:29:14:10 - 00:29:37:03
Unknown
Yeah. He was using volume pump. Interesting. Yeah. Very interesting. Yeah. Well we've got one more track. We're going to go out on this track and this is a really interesting pick. This is it better be this is a really good we I mean you were mentioning breathing and we were talking about vocalists and what we can learn. This is Aretha Franklin on the Wurlitzer with the Wilson electric piano.
00:29:37:11 - 00:29:58:09
Unknown
But with Billy Preston. Yes, on the organ. And this is, Yeah, Brazil trap water. And just as impressive as Billy is, is Aretha playing the melody? Yes. Her phrasing, her phrase is unbelievable. It's, we're going to go in on this till next time. All right? You're. You'll hear all the water. I won't give it up.
00:29:58:11 - 00:30:04:21
Unknown
Why don't you allow me to let it be?
00:30:04:23 - 00:30:32:18
Unknown
Still, whatever I need, you will do. I know that. Oh, yeah. It's gonna be. I could have been a dangerous move up high. Yeah, right. Oh. Great.
00:30:32:19 - 00:30:44:05
Unknown
Oh.
00:30:44:07 - 00:30:48:08
Unknown
Oh.
00:30:48:10 - 00:30:56:03
Unknown
And where these can be. Hearts played that expressively on a single line like that.
00:30:56:05 - 00:31:03:00
Unknown
Yeah. Talk about just a very static. Yeah. Like.
00:31:03:02 - 00:31:10:18
Unknown
She's making it sing, and that organ is truly super. I mean, it's a great connection. And.
00:31:10:20 - 00:31:26:21
Unknown
You. Yeah. Many times I use that. This is a great video of, of a Billy Preston when he's, I think 5 or 6 years old on the Nat King Cole. Oh, yes, Sir John. All right. Oh, God
00:31:26:21 - 00:31:39:06
Unknown
said, I mean, why don't you. Why don't you Cornell degree, maybe Eric Gill. And may the details on this record every time I hear someone.
00:31:39:08 - 00:31:44:15
Unknown
Yeah. The placement details. Oh, yeah.
00:31:44:15 - 00:32:19:03
Unknown
Hey, I believe in your. But just like Billy with with the Beatles, he's incredibly supportive without taking the limelight, you know, it's just when he even informs Saul and Aretha at the piano, comfort you? Jake, bass player saving the day there. Yeah. Oh, wind. That is how.
00:32:19:03 - 00:32:22:15
Unknown
I tell
00:32:22:15 - 00:32:31:19
Unknown
it, we are pressing for years and support, but he's also not afraid to get in there and with and, like, get aggressive at the right time to say something.
00:32:31:19 - 00:32:51:04
Unknown
Get out. A lot of tasty words. So it's. Right. There you go. Thanks. Thanks so much for being here, man. Thanks, guys. Admire you too, man, so much. Thank you. Yeah. All right. It's been a really. We will not bar you from being on this program. Oh, bar. Wow. Would you like to go to the bar? We can.
00:32:51:04 - 00:33:03:14
Unknown
We can do it. Okay. Can we cut that? Horrible. It's kind of sad. To it.
00:33:03:16 - 00:33:03:21
Unknown
For
