00:00:00:00 - 00:00:16:18
Unknown
Hey, Bob, do you like podcasts? Well, you know, with everything terrible in the world. No, actually, you don't have a mic. So, Adam, do you like podcast? Oh, man, I love podcasts. In fact, I'm on a podcast right now. Yes. I'm aware. Do you ever listen to the Broken Record podcast? Yeah, it's one of my favorites with Justin Richmond.
00:00:16:19 - 00:01:38:09
Unknown
Yeah. So I asked him if you could join us on the show today. Oh, that's very exciting. And he's going to be here in just a minute. Very thrilling. And speaking of broken records, I think he broke a few on this range. Yes. Yeah. Most number of move chords ever. Yeah. Sounds like something I do.
00:01:38:11 - 00:01:55:22
Unknown
I'm Adam, and I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the you'll hear podcast using explorer. Explorer. Brought to you today by Open Studio. Go to Open Studio jazz.com for your jazz lesson needs. Peter, we are not alone today. We are not alone. Yeah. We have an in-person. Yes guest with us, the great Justin Richmond from the Broken Record podcast.
00:01:55:22 - 00:02:14:15
Unknown
Justin, man, thank you for having me, man. Thank you for coming to Saint Louis. So pleased to be here. Thank you for talking music with us. We've already had a great time. You've been here for a while and we've been like, we've done the podcast. I know that sounds old. We've already talked for several hours about music. I wish we had the microphones on, but yeah, it's so great to have you here at The Real.
00:02:14:16 - 00:02:39:14
Unknown
I'm. I'm a podcast royalty big watcher of your guys's stuff. Crazy. That's crazy. Likewise. And it's. And subscribe. I'm a subscriber. Oh, you saw me. Yes. You went to see. It was too easy. I just put in my PayPal pay late, I don't know, super great. Yeah. So we get you? Yeah. Well, man, we are talking about one of my all time favorite albums today, Paul Simon.
00:02:39:15 - 00:02:54:20
Unknown
Still crazy after all these years, 1975. And Justin, this was on a list that you gave us of like things you might want to discuss. And before we get into and we were nervous when when Justin Richmond gave us a list of albums that he wanted to discuss, we didn't, like start shaking as we looked through the list, believe me.
00:02:54:20 - 00:03:13:10
Unknown
No, not at all. But I'm just curious, why was this on your list? Matt? Well, okay, this has a bit to do with, my neuroses. I just didn't I was scared, so I was scared, so I kind of wanted to nerd out. I really wanted to get deep into jazz with you guys, so I was kind of wanted to.
00:03:13:10 - 00:03:29:08
Unknown
But then I got. So I feel like my first list aired towards Zach. So I was like, I want, you know, I want to go to talk like Mingus. Like, you know, classic jazz, you know, record. But then I was like, you know what, man? Like, it's my lane. Let me get down. I go back to what I, you know, like Peter Space, isn't it?
00:03:29:08 - 00:03:46:17
Unknown
It's just super intimidating. Yeah. I was like, I won't get chewed up. So hold on. Let me just let me recommend something that I feel like is, that it's very much a classic album, and incorporates jazz in his, in his, in the, you know, takes in the milieu but is, is is firmly in the pop, arena.
00:03:46:22 - 00:04:05:08
Unknown
Yeah. And this was definitely, you know, like, I think I sent him Earth, Wind and fire suggestions about something, but but this seemed to be like the most, I don't know, compelling in a way. Yeah. And a little bit strategic. It sounds a little strategic. Yeah. Now this guy, because we want to talk to to you about something that you can really sink your teeth into and that I think we could.
00:04:05:10 - 00:04:23:11
Unknown
And you're right, this album is a feel. The jazz musicians. Yeah. And we'll talk about that more when we get to it. And we talk about, you know, we've been using the term jazz adjacent. You know, I like the, you know, jazz influence and stuff. Yeah. And I'm it's going to be really interesting to get your guys take on how much of that obviously jazz musicians on.
00:04:23:15 - 00:04:48:11
Unknown
There's always the idea of like jazz musicians on a pop record playing pop. Yeah. Or like how much are they invited in to bring jazz to bring groove. Like, is it a harmonic kind of thing? Is it a sensibility? Is it improvization which this record has some, but not really a lot like truncated, you know. Yeah. But it's super interesting to me to hear how people like whether or not it gets to the point where it's, well, there's one point that's going to come up later where it definitely gets very jazzy.
00:04:48:16 - 00:05:04:05
Unknown
It's like falls off the rails. Jazzy all of a sudden, too. Yeah, yeah. Which I think is great, but other than that, you know, I'm not sure. Well, let's get a little backstory here on, what was going on before this album was made in 1975. So Paul Simon grew up in a musical home in Queens, New York.
00:05:04:05 - 00:05:28:15
Unknown
His dad, Lou, played bass professionally for radio stations, and he encouraged his son to appreciate music and study piano. But Paul didn't really take to it. That is, until he heard doo wop and rhythm and blues on the radio. He was just a kid, maybe 9 or 10, and he was completely changed by what he heard. He would obsessively listen to the radio after school, listening to songs like hearts of Stone by the Jews.
00:05:28:20 - 00:06:03:03
Unknown
That's made of stone. What do I do? Well, never, ever like I do. I still love you. Happy about it? Just one day you can add or kaboom by the cookouts, by the love. Oh, I've never done that before, but I love that song. Or good Night, sweetheart by the spaniels. Goodnight, sweetheart. There's time to go do that.
00:06:03:05 - 00:06:24:05
Unknown
He met Art Garfunkel in school, and the two started singing together, recording their voices on a wire recorder and playing it back to hear how their voices intersected. You see a wire record? We got to talk. I have to Google that. Then they started singing together at school talent shows and even writing songs together. They both fell in love with the Everly Brothers, with songs like Bye Bye Love.
00:06:24:07 - 00:06:48:12
Unknown
And then one day after school, they walked into a recording studio in Manhattan and paid $10 to record this song. Poof! I love you, Bob. You're my take if I let you pop your mind. And of course, Paul Simon. Everybody knows that Simon and Garfunkel. So this was, recorded under the name Tom and Jerry, not Simon and Garfunkel, which is a very funny name.
00:06:48:17 - 00:07:04:12
Unknown
It just so happened that Sid Frozen, who owned a small record label, was in the room. He heard them sing and offered them a contract to release Hey Schoolgirl on his label. Did you say Sid frozen. Who does? It is, I have to say, Sid present on the small record label. That was that was implicit in the name.
00:07:04:14 - 00:07:26:05
Unknown
They quickly found their sound. They became famous and eventually broke up. But foreshadowing it was another breakup that would create the conditions for one of his best albums. Still crazy after all these years. So we thank you very much. We don't often think about Simon and Garfunkel as like a doo wop group, but that is certainly their origins.
00:07:26:05 - 00:07:49:23
Unknown
And you can hear that in the Hey Schoolgirl. Yeah. But really interesting origin story from Paul. I knew his dad was a musician, but, I'm curious. Peter, like your father also a professional musician. Yeah. Not in the same context that you are, right. But I think that's mystical. There's so many astounding musicians, you, yourself included, who come from, like a dad who's like a workaday musician.
00:07:50:00 - 00:08:16:14
Unknown
Right? Right. Yeah. And I wonder, I love, I think that's an interesting part, but I think a music lover parent, you know, like, that's the trend I hear with a lot, I don't know. Oh, I know, for you, for for you out of your parents. Your dad had great taste in music and would play stuff. And I'd be interested in you just in, just like I think having pair because both my parents are actually musicians is is an interesting angle, but it's almost more like, is music in the home like, how is it present?
00:08:16:14 - 00:08:35:06
Unknown
Like, not that you're at the altar of it, but like culturally, is it a big part of, you know, your upbringing? Yeah. I mean, for me neither. My, you know, both of my parents sometimes have asked me like, how did you come up? But for me was my I think my mom's mom, my grandma was really she's from Detroit and for whatever reason just loved.
00:08:35:08 - 00:08:50:01
Unknown
She'd always tell me, like, teach me life lessons through, like, you know, the stories of some celebrities you heard, like I always knew not to do. I learned not to take drugs because Judy Garland tell you, I was watching Wizard of Oz, and my grandma told me Judy Garland last week. Your pills. And I'm like, don't take pills, okay?
00:08:50:03 - 00:09:03:00
Unknown
Like, But then she would tell me things like, don't sign with MGM. Yeah, that's what I. Yeah, exactly. You know, don't don't, you know, she told me about how Nat King Cole used to like to smoke because it would keep his voice like, you know, like he liked the way he made his voice sound. But.
00:09:03:02 - 00:09:18:12
Unknown
But that would die. Lung cancer, you know? So then that was the flip. Okay. So don't. Smoker. Yeah. You know, she made me do, she made me join the swim team because Frank Sinatra swam for, like, greater, like lung. So my grandma just like singers and would always, like, make me listen to things. And she tell me you singers were trash.
00:09:18:12 - 00:09:36:05
Unknown
I said, yeah, you can learn everything about life in terms of like, you don't overeager in, like, poverty. A lot of that stuff. Yeah, yeah. So I think it was my grandma. Yeah, yeah. And I hated vocalists growing up. But I've come back around to it now. It's all I love it. It's a love, a good love a good singer.
00:09:36:07 - 00:09:57:05
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. Well I think too like like you hear the music, the do. I mean, obviously none of us, even me being the elder statesman here, came up listening to that doo wop style. But like, I remember my aunt and my uncle and my parents, two I like they're more like classical musicians. I live a little snobby, but, you know, I think it's hard for us probably to understand the impact of that song.
00:09:57:05 - 00:10:13:12
Unknown
I remember my aunt Carol talking about Fats Domino, you know, and like one of his hits would come on the radio and, like, she was like, that's when I fell in love with your uncle, and, like, just like that sound. And so I, you know, hearing I never realized that Paul Simon and but it totally makes sense. Yeah.
00:10:13:13 - 00:10:38:23
Unknown
Came out of that. But like, it's got to inform everything that they did. You can hear that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like the constant harmonies and everything that they're doing Simon Garfunkel a long way away from Tom and Jerry. Hey, skips over on a little elevated. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm maybe these kids. Come on. Oh, see, you got your back.
00:10:39:01 - 00:11:08:01
Unknown
So after Simon and Garfunkel, are defunct, Paul makes his first studio album, self-titled Paul Simon album with some good success. I love this album. Incredible album. So good. This is the one. The cover, with. He's got the put up for her. Yeah. This is a ten out of ten album cover for. Yeah. Oh. That's me and Julio down by ten, right.
00:11:08:06 - 00:11:29:09
Unknown
1972. In 1973, Paul releases There Goes Rhymin Simon. Also a good album, not as good as the self-titled or as good as Still Crazy in my opinion. But yeah, some good stuff, including this track group that makes such a good song. But as we're already hearing here and still rhyming the sound quality for 1973, that's some high low.
00:11:29:10 - 00:11:49:04
Unknown
Yeah. When I think back on all the crap I love, it's the same producers just Phil Ramone. Yeah, I was just wondering if it it sounds like his kind of. Yeah. But I mean, Simon apparently was very I think anytime like you talk about the engineers and the production and of course still crazy, I think it was Phil Ramone and Paul Simon produced it together.
00:11:49:04 - 00:12:10:01
Unknown
But I think like we explore with Michael Jackson and Marvin Gaye. Stevie like they when you get that pristine sound, whatever the direction is, like the artist has almost always had. I mean, occasionally you'll hear about with artists like I do whatever. Yeah. And then they create this magic, but they are usually very meticulous with how they want not only their voice, but the whole, you know, the whole thing.
00:12:10:03 - 00:12:31:08
Unknown
Yeah. After There Goes Rhymin Simon. By 1974, Paul and his wife Peggy had a son together. Harper who? Paul adored. His musical career had been a success so far, but he was still so sad and didn't know why. He was isolating himself from his family, spending most nights away from the house one night he came home and hopped in the shower to wash off the sadness.
00:12:31:14 - 00:12:53:18
Unknown
He burst into tears and this phrase came to mind. Still crazy after all these years. Soon after, a productive shower, I gotta say, I wish I wasn't dark moments. I never doubted it. Well, that's Paul Simon for you. Soon after that, his solo album There Goes Rhymin Simon was nominated for a Grammy for album of the year. He was up against Stevie Wonder's Inner Visions.
00:12:53:18 - 00:13:18:18
Unknown
Ever heard of it? Inner visions won the Grammy that year is I'm Not afraid to try and go, this is Golden Lady from Inner Visions and Beautiful. Oh No Need for magic. Hearing this and being a working artist, we talked about this, but talking. I go to the shower, I come up with nothing. But if you're listening to Stevie here in this 70s run that he's on, you gotta be like, well, I guess it's done.
00:13:18:18 - 00:13:38:00
Unknown
I guess music is over. Hanging it up. Yeah, we should all pack it in. And that's kind of what Paul did. Maybe one day he was poring over intermissions when his wife reminded him it was time to leave. Paul didn't move. He kept listening. She reminded him again. Now he was feeling angry, but she reminded him, she's like my household.
00:13:38:00 - 00:13:57:06
Unknown
My voice was in my home recently. I'm. I'm amazing. I'm still married. But he walked out the door and went to a hotel. That was the end of his marriage for me, since I didn't get it broke up. I didn't get some executive decision making like, oh man, we'll think about it. Like everyone's like Stevie Wonder. He played pretty much every instrument we know.
00:13:57:06 - 00:14:20:09
Unknown
He did everything on the record, on interviews. I am talking book. Yeah, except like background. Well, I even did that. But. But he wrote everything, played everything, killed it and was also like breaking up marriages at the time. So Paul wrote the album Still crazy after all these years from that same hotel as he was divorcing his first wife, and he was the Plaza Hotel that was.
00:14:20:11 - 00:14:37:13
Unknown
But I feel like it probably was. Yeah, he ended up writing this and it wasn't the Holiday Inn town square. Now, was that.
00:14:37:21 - 00:15:09:15
Unknown
One of the greatest. No lover on the street last night. She seems so glad to see me. I just sounds great on the street. He really sounds great. That's Barry Beckett on the Fender Rhodes. Yeah, muscle Shoals Rhythm Section, and we drank ourselves some beers. Still crazy after all these years. Oh, still crazy after all the great kick drum sounds of all time.
00:15:09:17 - 00:15:15:11
Unknown
And I hope I had.
00:15:15:12 - 00:15:36:20
Unknown
I'm not the kind of man who tends to social freezing between everyone is my symptom. Yeah, and there's this little details in the song writing going to that. I'm not the kind on the four chord. Just that one time. Yeah, one little change. And I think the like to start out the record like a lot of Simon stuff and that was Simon and Garfunkel before this.
00:15:36:20 - 00:16:03:08
Unknown
It's like so guitar driven. I like to start out with the roads on this one. I don't think there's any guitar. And then it sounds like the strings. It really places his voice and like you say, the phrasing in a different place. One of the greatest bridges ever. For in the morning, one of the here this bridge is never too strong arranged by Bob about Jerry Bob James shout up object still doing it?
00:16:04:12 - 00:16:32:19
Unknown
Never worry, why should I? Oh oh. So jazzy. Floaty strength. Yeah. And then this woodwind stuff is here because it almost goes. It gets a little dark, foreshadowing dark, a little bass. Then it's.
00:16:32:21 - 00:16:50:09
Unknown
Wild riding. Yeah. Oh, this would get you kick off Spotify track and then into this now Michael Brecker this little bit. But my.
00:16:50:11 - 00:16:58:15
Unknown
Silly work this solo. Yeah. This song.
00:16:58:17 - 00:17:15:06
Unknown
Also very kind of un Brecker. So very, known for these, like, huge waves of sound and like, the least amount of notes. He's. I mean, it's a short solo, but normally Brecker would be trying to get in more notes per per beat, if anything, killing key change.
00:17:15:08 - 00:17:56:15
Unknown
But I would not be in the middle of the first, you see, of my peers. Still crazy and holy g. Oh, still praising Tom Brady, still crazy after all these years. What do we think, fellas? I mean it's it's it's impeccable. I mean, it's like pristine and like there's the deep like there's the, the church stuff and Don don't know that for one movement that's like starts there, ends there, bookends it.
00:17:56:16 - 00:18:17:07
Unknown
And there's a lot of that in between. Kind of, you know, we mentioned Barry Beckett. So the muscle this is all with the Muscle Shoals Rhythm Section, which. Yeah, exactly. We'll talk more about them. They're on these first two tracks. This was not recorded in Muscle Shoals, though. They play different. That doesn't sound like necessarily the Muscle Shoals Rhythm Section.
00:18:17:07 - 00:18:37:17
Unknown
Yeah. Which is. That's cool in a way, I don't know. Yeah. Everybody's playing different. That's the theme of this album I like is like all the jazz musicians are playing a little differently. I feel, well, we'll get to that. That's the woods. Yeah, but not for eight seconds. I love this this Roads Park is just a beautiful example of the very simple church chords.
00:18:37:17 - 00:18:58:14
Unknown
It's just played flawlessly. The voice leading is unbelieve. Yeah, obviously the sound of a Rhodes 1970, but normally there'd be a little bit more exploit, like a little bit of bluesy, like I feel like they were. I think Simon told them or somebody, I don't know, that was Phil Ramone was involved, like like, oh yeah. Oh, that's, you know, which is I mean, that's probably appropriate for what it is.
00:18:58:14 - 00:19:16:02
Unknown
But for me, I kind of want to hear a little bit. Yeah, just a little bit of grit or something here. So you think a little more grit were you nine. It's a 9.5 a little more grit. Make that a ten out of ten. Yeah. Like what if Donny Hathaway was playing that road. Oh yeah. Well 11. Right.
00:19:16:04 - 00:19:30:10
Unknown
But I kind of agree with you. It feels like. I mean, for Barry Beckett. It's pulled back a lot. But do you think for Michael records pulled back. Right. Do you think Justin like what you were talking about? Like the phrasing that Paul Simon is singing with that that would have more grit. Would it take it away from that?
00:19:30:10 - 00:19:48:20
Unknown
I don't know, I don't know if. Yes. I think it terms the way Paul approaches songs and sings. I think that sort of more pulled back, restrained playing is probably more like if Donnie singing and playing right, you know? Yeah, it's going to go after Paul is not a great vocalist. But yeah, it's just you know what he does though?
00:19:48:20 - 00:20:11:12
Unknown
It's not what he does. It's not. Yeah. It would be weird if Paul was like singing yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh it would feel a little weird. That's sort of understated, putting putting real focus on the lyrics and the turn of the phrase. Yeah, in a very gentle way. That's the Paul Simon I think about. Yeah, I had when I think about his talent as a vocalist, we can hear that here without my own backing.
00:20:11:13 - 00:20:46:02
Unknown
Girl on the Street last night. She seems so glad to see me. I just smile. Then we talked about some old ups and we drank ourselves some beers. Still crazy after all these years. I was still crazy after all these years. It's like you're walking with a friend in the Upper West Side. Yeah, it's like telling you his story about running into his ex.
00:20:46:02 - 00:21:09:10
Unknown
So conversational for sure. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and his voice really lends like the authenticity of it because his like, I think the little bit of stank or grit that he does bring is that, you know, the pitch is he has really good intonation, but he does play around just a little bit with the pitch, like he's he's not afraid to have it to be a little like stylized.
00:21:09:10 - 00:21:23:12
Unknown
Yeah. Especially when you hear it isolating because it can seem so like I mean, thank God he's not doing this in the pitch correction, you know, I mean, if he had to because he doesn't need I mean, it's like that's it's so subtle that you need to kind of hear those. Like that's part of his style, you know.
00:21:23:12 - 00:21:43:14
Unknown
Yeah. Because the words it's like I mean we did D'Angelo. This is like the opposite where it's like, wait, what was the lyrics that he's saying for the last five minutes? That was really dirty. It sounded oh, what was he talking about? No idea. What was anything like. This is just like, very, you know, still crazy after, I mean, like, it's right down the middle and, I mean, it's it's it's impressive.
00:21:43:14 - 00:22:02:06
Unknown
And I think, too, that this, this track is such a it's almost like theatrical, you know, it's like it's telling the story, but it's like you're going on this journey and it builds up and like obviously James by Bob James like totally understood that and crafted that with the arrangement because that gave it a little bit of epic feel for just a little bit at the right time.
00:22:02:06 - 00:22:23:16
Unknown
I feel like a studio film, like, you know, gotta be like this going for like a studio film from that era of like thing. And yeah, I 100% agree it's that and that mix of conversationalists with that drama or that theatrical ness is, yeah, I don't know. That's top tier for me. Yeah, yeah. I agree, the back to the woodwind arrangements and the string range is from Bob James.
00:22:23:16 - 00:22:44:13
Unknown
You can hear that this was obviously put on, I think after the rhythm section and maybe even after the vocals, because Bob James will will do some things with Barry Beckett that you wouldn't put on a chart. Yeah. Cuz he follows his voicings much like the Shirley Horn. Here's the knife. Right. Arranging sound. Mendel. It's a great example of how that can work really, really well.
00:22:44:13 - 00:23:06:06
Unknown
And obviously Bob Simon just told him on the bridge like, hey, Bob, that's your part going on with it? Yeah, do some weird stuff. You got the 20s that's radio's not going to lose this by 75. Good. Again, the rhythm section is the Muscle Shoals Rhythm section at the time, Barry Beckett, David Hood and Roger Hawkins. You might have heard them on stuff like this.
00:23:06:08 - 00:23:38:21
Unknown
And that Artie has more you, Peter, light up my favorite bassline all time. Great. Oh, is should we just listen to this for the rest? Oh, is. It's not over. I mean, that's how versatile they were, though. Ain't nobody cryin. Rimshot is so. Oh, man. While you were in, you know, smiling faces took on the Staple Singers. Like obviously it's that it was definitely the gospel influence.
00:23:38:21 - 00:23:58:19
Unknown
But it's like that's southern kind of folky, but it's got a little bit of that new, you know, that stack, you know, it's just yeah, those guys know how to do it. So this album would be Simon's first solo album on the Billboard album charts. Still Crazy After All These years. Won a Grammy for album of the year in 1976, which is incredible.
00:23:58:21 - 00:24:21:01
Unknown
In his acceptance speech, he thanked Stevie Wonder, who didn't make an album this year. Right. This guy slipped in and then that's just, track one. Track two is we get a we get a Simon and Garfunkel reunion, with my little town, again, this is this was recorded at the muscle Muscle Shoals Studios in Mississippi, with the same Alabama.
00:24:21:10 - 00:24:42:16
Unknown
Sorry, in Alabama. Oh, no one's gonna get upset about that. No one's gonna get upset about that. This is again with Barry Beckett on acoustic piano, David Hood on bass guitar, Roger Hawkins on drums, Pete Car on the electric guitar, David Matthews with the horn arrangements, Ralph McDonald with the percussion. Shallow Ralph McDonald killing. On this record on a Bunch of kills 100% little.
00:24:42:16 - 00:25:11:12
Unknown
His own little accouterments there they really do some cool stuff. This is my little town.
00:25:11:13 - 00:25:52:09
Unknown
That's Alabama, little town. Now the New Yorkers have arrived. Oh, baby. I mean, but it works. I mean, New Yorkers, they were direct from Montauk to Muscle Shoals. He used to beat up on me as I pledged allegiance to the war on Long Island. Makes us go my little town. Coming home after school. Fly in my bag past the gates of the factory.
00:25:52:11 - 00:26:31:06
Unknown
Oh, nice. My mom doing the laundry, hanging out shirts in the dirty green. And after it rains, there's a rainbow. And all of the colors are black. It's not that the colors there is just imagination. Hey, like everything's the same. Peter, what's the form of this verse? Oh, well, you know what I want. You know what? I think it's great.
00:26:31:06 - 00:26:51:05
Unknown
I'm realized. Like part of the genius of Paul Song with his songwriting and then how it's like actualized in the in the song, in the arrangement is that pacing that breath like that's worked in like Victor these odd like little two beat things and stuff. But that works for when the lyric comes back in the pacing of when you look at the chart or I'm thinking about the meter is like, why?
00:26:51:05 - 00:27:11:03
Unknown
That's weird. Why did they put that three four in or whatever? But it works for the storytelling and like highlights the lyric and the melody and the pacing. Such good storytelling. It's a through composed verse, but it pays off. Yeah, with this like just repetitive hook. Yeah.
00:27:11:05 - 00:27:58:04
Unknown
In my little town somewhere else. No. Yeah. Never meant nothing. I'll just impart a father son. You. Saved my money. Dreaming of glory. Go for those cries like majors. They're on a tree. You're on the up. Be that nothing up. And then I'm back in my little town. Home. Up and pop. And then I'm back in my little town.
00:27:58:06 - 00:28:16:14
Unknown
Weird like minor second harmony. Yeah, in the background vocals. And those horn lines, like, a lot of this stuff, shouldn't work as well as it does. 100% like to wait that long to bring in the horns and have them kind of like, you know, the entire song shouldn't work. Yeah. And Ralph McDonald in there, like, it's like it's like it's like, you know, like push your man.
00:28:16:16 - 00:28:33:15
Unknown
Like they're like, what in the world. What like, is Mayfield that like a nominal. Yeah. Yeah. And then the Muscle Shoals guys the rhythm section is like that was a lot of like either reading or like figure it out. You know all those those little because they're kind of groove. And then they got away some extra beats and then come and come in and stuff.
00:28:33:15 - 00:28:50:23
Unknown
Yeah. Cool stuff. Love the sound of the piano. What do you think about that piano sound with me at the beginning? That's one of the most. So that unison, can you play that very first? No. They're going to nerd out. It's not exactly in two. It's like I was trying to see like the unison are all there, like on the edge of.
00:28:51:01 - 00:29:09:20
Unknown
Oh, and then that delay from with the guitar. But so just to nerd out real quick, but it's sort of of interest like a piano and down in that range would be two, no, two, no strings. There's actually two strings and the hammers hitting it. And so like if one of the strings is a little bit out of the tune, you get this kind of weird, you know, it sounds out of tune on its own.
00:29:09:20 - 00:29:21:23
Unknown
If it gets really out of tune. Sounds like a honky tonk piano. Yeah. You think? Yeah. It's like a hole. Yeah. No, but this one is like, just on. I don't think it's actually out because you don't hear the waves going, but it's like very close. So it gives and I mean his touches. It's such a simple thing.
00:29:21:23 - 00:29:39:23
Unknown
And you see it on these be like greatest piano intros of all time. I was like, that's an easy one to learn, but maybe not to play it like that, you know? Yeah. It's a beautiful record. Yeah, it is a beautiful record in the horn. I don't know, man, I, I don't they must have really hated each other too, because to make that record, he manages to be like, okay, we're going to make a record together.
00:29:39:23 - 00:29:56:20
Unknown
You make that record say, screw it now. Yeah, I can't stand you. Still, how do you make that and decide? And you mix it. You do the whole thing. No where in the process you think, let's put it aside. I can't imagine ever in your life making Bridge Over Troubled Water and be like, I never want to see this person ever again.
00:29:56:22 - 00:30:19:01
Unknown
Right. And wasn't this like the third time they were coming back several times, right? Yeah. Like they always try and keep trying, but they sound so good on that. And they did. Wasn't this released on also on our Garfunkel solo record? Yeah. Yeah like three. Yeah. And I think the same position to like track two. Like I just went like so they obviously both approved of the of the recording.
00:30:19:03 - 00:30:41:16
Unknown
It's insane. The good. Yeah yeah. Classic classic case of two people whose personalities can't handle each other and they end up making some of the greatest art, maybe because of even not even despite of. But like me, a couple guys I know I'm not sure you know see got so it's like gets these cameras. It's I see it.
00:30:41:16 - 00:30:58:03
Unknown
Yeah. Just has to deal with some shit this whole time. Oh that's cool. And I think to like, one thing that's always interesting to me is like how, you know, when I was coming up learning music, it's like, oh, you're going to get into this. And they do some like weird diminished chords on. I'm like, that's where the thing is.
00:30:58:03 - 00:31:12:14
Unknown
But the reality is like, how do these tunes start? And like, the ending is different cause there's so many fadeout on. And this was the the age of like the beginning of the fade out, you know, which is my own little quibble bit, but like how these first two tracks start with like that road sound. You got a beginning.
00:31:12:14 - 00:31:31:14
Unknown
That's a throw it back up. You have a cool it with fade outs. Yeah, I'm not I'm not a fan of the I'm like anything. Let's end it. Yeah. That's you. Yeah. Yeah. It's like for radio it's great. But it's also like when we were here. I mean, this was a little before my time when I was here and on the radio, but it's like the DJs had so much control over when the thing was going to like.
00:31:31:14 - 00:31:46:05
Unknown
That's when I came up in the era of, like, you didn't know when it was going. It was definitely big before, like, I remember that, what is it? Do I do Stevie Wonder where Dizzy Gillespie plays that? So like that never. My sister had the LP and so I remember she played it. I was like, wait, what is that?
00:31:46:09 - 00:32:03:05
Unknown
Because it never could have never occurred on the right. Like it was always faded out before you got to that. You're like, we're gonna play the jazz on the other side. I was like to the imagination that some some of the fade out, some, some fade out are like a cop out within sometimes. Like what? Like, you know, the end of, like, like I want you back, you know, you're like Michaels cook, and you're like, what?
00:32:03:07 - 00:32:32:07
Unknown
I don't like what happened. Yeah, that's. Give me that. Your sense of fade out is you hearing all the good stuff. Yeah, like, where is it going? But it gives you this mystery to what's. Yeah, that song could still be going on. We don't know. Yeah. Is it still going today? Yeah. They never stop. Like. Yeah. And then it's also like, well, like when we can talk about it as we go to like this is I think when we are just reminiscing about this or prepping for this, somebody mentioned or we all commiserated about, this is a great, you know, put the vinyl on.
00:32:32:11 - 00:32:48:20
Unknown
We did put berets on and went and got a little pour over coffee before we said that it was espresso, I believe. Yeah. So yeah. But I mean that's another thing is like how do you get from like if you are listening to this as an album and you're not getting screwed up by Spotify doing some weird, like, what does it feel like to transition from each track?
00:32:48:20 - 00:33:04:17
Unknown
You know, it's it feels great. Yeah, I know that's unbelievable. Yeah. Well, speaking of feeling good, I think this track three for me is. Well, we'll talk about it later. It might be. Might be the apex. This is I do it for your love. And for some reason this is a favorite of jet. Well, not for some reason it's.
00:33:04:17 - 00:33:30:02
Unknown
But it is a favorite of jazz musicians, as we'll talk about in a minute. I have been a favorite of steely dance to this. We got a brand new rhythm section on this one. We got Kenneth Asher on the Fender Rhodes, Jerry Friedman on electric guitar, Joe Beck on electric guitar, the great Tony Levin on bass, and the immortal Steve Guy on the drums.
00:33:30:02 - 00:33:57:04
Unknown
Here, force. And again, Ralph, we got married on a rainy day. My sky was yellow and the grass was gray. We signed the papers and we drove away. I do it for your love.
00:33:57:06 - 00:34:22:05
Unknown
The rules were musty on the place. Whoa whoa whoa. All that went to Cheryl Cole. The most Paul Simon lyric ever. I drank all the orange juice that we could hold. I do it for your love. You.
00:34:22:07 - 00:34:52:09
Unknown
Found the wrong. Oh, chug, chug. This brought it home to you. Oh, we love the way the color those red, the orange and the blue. Oh. And by the way.
00:34:52:11 - 00:35:01:21
Unknown
I know you feel.
00:35:01:23 - 00:35:18:20
Unknown
When you close. Bizarre. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what? The instrument that is. That's, vocals, right? It's accordion and vocals from an artist named Steve Luca. Okay.
00:35:18:22 - 00:35:28:09
Unknown
This is why jazz musicians like it. Long hair solo in the middle of the track.
00:35:28:11 - 00:35:46:21
Unknown
So an incredible song. I was thinking, like I would have been scared. I mean, like, this is a really fun way to play on a studio record like this, and I can relate and think about things, but I would play the details. I mean, obviously with with Paul's vocals and the backgrounds and the way he's I mean, it's like everything is perfect.
00:35:46:21 - 00:36:14:18
Unknown
I don't think it's antiseptic, but it's like very much like I feel like if I played one little, oh, I think I'm gonna do this, like, do the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to fall in line on this. You got your line. Yeah. And I think maybe now I'm feeling like the Muscle Shoals Rhythm Section moving to this one, because there's a certain stylized way that the album is produced that it kind of works because normally you start shifting rhythm sections, you know, on track three, that can their cohesion can, but is totally cohesive.
00:36:14:18 - 00:36:34:00
Unknown
Yeah. Going into it. Yeah. The most Paul Simon lyric, that I think has ever been written besides maybe like Mississippi Delta shining like a national guitar is the rooms are musty and the pipes were old all that winter. We shared a cold, drank all the orange juice that we could hold. I do it for your love.
00:36:34:00 - 00:37:00:20
Unknown
Just that little glimpse of a daily life. That is unbelievably beautiful song. Yeah, yeah, just the mundane, whatever. Just, you know, and it's like. But when Paul sings it too, it's like, oh, right. Super difficult to to land that. Yeah. And not be super corny. Yeah. Does it. Yeah. Pulls it off. Yeah. Is this a good time to bring up I have a question for you guys because this is the ultimate sad boy album for I mean, he was going through a pretty hairy divorce.
00:37:00:20 - 00:37:20:02
Unknown
Yeah, I think so. Yeah it is, that is. Yeah. But this is the best. This is also like the the platonic form of that, you know, it's like if you're going to do a Sad Boy album, do it tasteful. Right? Right. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, what about the Fender Rhodes? Yeah. And don't even call her out by name like that.
00:37:20:05 - 00:37:42:13
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And then throw an accordion vocal. So. Right. You know that, right. Also, I think Bob James, I was in some of that harmony. I think he might have had a little something to do with some of the, the composite. Yeah. At least some of the I mean, I guess that's technically not the songwriting. That's like the harmonic arrangement, but I'm, I'm hearing some stuff in there that makes sense.
00:37:42:13 - 00:38:09:09
Unknown
I mean, he's in there. Bob, if you don't know Bob James, you might know him from this. You. Mean who doesn't know about James? But. It's great jazz pianist as well. I mean, incredible jazz pianist. Bob James, incredible pianist. Composer. This is this, Angela, the theme from taxi. Give show. Taxi. And super sweet, nice guy. I met him when I was in high school, and he was.
00:38:09:11 - 00:38:26:00
Unknown
I think I've ripped that off in so many songs over the years. Don't worry. You, I love. No, I met Bob James shout out Bob James when I was in high school and he, I was at this like band thing in Texas same day I met Ra Hargrove when I was in high school. But Bob James was just like, I would assume he came over to me after he heard our high school band play.
00:38:26:00 - 00:38:39:00
Unknown
I was like, hey, you sound good. He's like, I'm Bob James. I was like, yeah, but it's just one of those guys that, you know, it's like, you know, he could have been like, yeah, you sounded like, shit, I'm Bob Dylan. I would, I would have given up music. I would have been like, you're great. I guess I'm in the wrong field, you know?
00:38:39:00 - 00:38:53:00
Unknown
Did you know as Bob James when? Before he said he was Bob James? No, because he was so selfish. You know, I mean, it's just so, like, just like, hey, you know. Yeah, I'm like, why would he be here? But, you know, so I do it for you. Love is covered by Herbie Hancock on his 2005 album possibilities.
00:38:53:00 - 00:39:08:17
Unknown
So this is Paul Simon with Paul's like, it sounds way different. Yeah, actually did it. Paul asked him to do it in a minor key. Yeah. And to do it on just one chord and Herbie's like, I don't think we can do that. Paul. Yeah, Herbie is like, I can play one note here. I'm gonna put a bunch of Herbie shit on top.
00:39:08:18 - 00:39:18:00
Unknown
This is exactly what happened. That's exactly what he did. So it's just piano, percussion. And Paul.
00:39:18:02 - 00:39:31:10
Unknown
It's like. Ravel, Herbie. Paul, Simon. Like that stuff? Yeah, yeah.
00:39:31:12 - 00:39:51:21
Unknown
Damn.
00:39:51:23 - 00:40:13:12
Unknown
We were married on a rainy day. The sky was yellow and the grass was gray. We signed the papers and we drove away. I do it for your love.
00:40:13:14 - 00:40:32:13
Unknown
I haven't heard this in a while, so it's cool. Yeah.
00:40:32:15 - 00:40:58:23
Unknown
The rooms were musty and the pipes were cool. Man. All that would do is share this good footage of them recording this two track all the, I mean, yeah, I mean, another another feather in the cap of maybe, a case for Herbie just being the goat. I mean, truly, what other jazz pianist of the big 3 or 4 that we can think of could step in and do this in this way?
00:40:59:04 - 00:41:17:18
Unknown
I mean, I don't think any of them would want to do even or even want to be curious enough or open enough, or have the personality that is so attractive that that Herbie seems to have. Yeah. You notice how much he attracts other artists? Yeah, he's just a magnet for. Yeah, yeah. Paul, you know what? I listen to that too.
00:41:17:18 - 00:41:38:10
Unknown
I'm like, we've had some conversations about Paul parachuting into things, but yeah, I think Paul might have the right idea, man. Paul does. I mean, if I was like the idea of someone of Paul Simon's caliber and stature and culture be like, let's rework this, you know, album cut from one of my big albums, not even a hit.
00:41:38:16 - 00:41:52:17
Unknown
Not even a hit. Yeah. And just, you know, it's like, you know, I don't know, like, I'm not I don't want to, you know, most people aren't going to do that, right? What's what's cool about them. And that's what how I would use my powers to. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, I'm just get Herbie in the studio real quick and yeah, you know, like, man, like.
00:41:52:21 - 00:42:10:13
Unknown
Yeah. And I was just thinking the similar thing in terms of, like, shout out to Paul Simon for going in, because I know that he's so detail oriented and would understand and know that when you get in there with the studio, like Herbie's, the suite is nice, but he's also going to be like me, like it's not going to be easy.
00:42:10:16 - 00:42:26:02
Unknown
Yeah, it's going to be wonderful. And if you're willing to come in and kind of let your guard down a little bit, like there's a chance for you to kind of like he will elevate your stuff. But I've heard from other vocalists that have played with him, there's just like, it's hard, like, like if you're not totally open to it and to just being yourself.
00:42:26:02 - 00:42:43:23
Unknown
And you can hear that like Paul's just singing the thing and Herbie's kind of doing different things, and Paul is allowing that to kind of envelop his composition. I mean, he's totally reworking the thing. Yeah, it's not the same. And I know herb like how many takes they did. Everyone was different. I guarantee you that. That was not like Herbie is like, oh, okay, we're gonna go to F minor, Paul.
00:42:44:00 - 00:43:00:18
Unknown
It's like, cool, awesome. Yeah. So I mean, I think that, it is one of those things where it could be like this beautiful, wonderful thing. But if you're kind of because that that whole record, that's a killin this song possibilities, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's a bunch of people and there's some I mean, all of them. I love that record.
00:43:00:18 - 00:43:18:21
Unknown
A lot of like, hardcore jazz, Herbie. People like, that's his worst. Herbie doesn't make a bad album then. He really does. But for jazz folks, some a lot of them overlook that record because it's like, I think there's, I'm forgetting there's a bunch of kind of like weird combinations, I think. Great. So Angelique Kidjo is on there, I think has a really cool thing that she does.
00:43:18:21 - 00:43:38:03
Unknown
This is after like the new standard era. Yeah. So Raul Midon, he does a cool thing with Herbie, but it's all people that are like, yeah, I'm willing to come in and, you know, I mean, Paul was probably the I actually I think sting might be on that too, you know, things another one they can kind of is he parachuting or is he, is he walking in the front door I know, is he private jet again.
00:43:38:05 - 00:43:56:06
Unknown
Yeah. That's an that's a good question. That's a good question. Yeah. Hard to know. What are we gonna do? Our police episode, man. Come on, it's coming man. Let's check out, the next track was what we do, the jazz police. We do the jazz and we're ready for that. The next track was a hit, and it's, 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover.
00:43:56:06 - 00:44:23:15
Unknown
Let's check it out. Problem is, on inside your head. She said to me, the answer is easy. If you take it logically, I'd like to help you in your struggle to be free. Something else I'm missing here. To love the. I was the coffeehouse version is out there. No, this this song. No one ever hit like that. It sounded just as compelling.
00:44:23:17 - 00:44:42:11
Unknown
Like, I don't know about Just Ask, but that's very compelling. Guys, do we just start the people Simon remix project? Yeah, totally. That really shocked me, actually. Yeah. Lovely. Well, that's this song. There's not much to it. There's not much going on. If you take the drums out of love, you just slip out the back deck. We got to talk about the course.
00:44:42:15 - 00:45:01:17
Unknown
I know that the one of the weirdest transitions ever been. It's like two to for two. I mean, it's two different. It's like, you know, like a lot of, like, you know, a lot of people hate like, or talk about, Ozzy's, what is that? Crazy train the transition from an intro riff to, like, the the verse.
00:45:01:21 - 00:45:20:02
Unknown
Yeah, that's one of those. Yeah. It's very, very jarring. So the chorus came out of a fun rhyming game that Paul was playing with, Harper with his son, and he was bad about his mama, but this was, you know, it's it's like. Listen, so let me tell you about the voice. Sometimes you just gotta sit back. Yeah, that's exactly what it is.
00:45:20:02 - 00:45:36:02
Unknown
Applause I hope this was happening. During the divorce, Paul was playing with Harper in his hotel, showing him simple rhyming games. The rhymes they made up made it into the song. You slip out the back, Jack, make a new plan. Sand was the game he's playing with his son, right? So, dad, why are you leaving my house? I gotta make a new plan.
00:45:36:02 - 00:45:55:04
Unknown
Stay on Mick. Yeah, it was the other way. And you gotta. You gotta make a Sabourin like daddy. Yeah? Yeah. Dad, can you not turn this in your album right now? I'm actually kind of broken inside. It's not about you, dad. Do you think he has a verse or the course? It must have the course. I mean, if he's doing the rhyming or did he have the verse and then didn't have a chorus?
00:45:55:04 - 00:46:10:06
Unknown
And who's doing the rhyming game? And that's a great question. Like, I think if he had that rhyming, that would have been the chorus. Kind of. I mean, how do you I've heard a track from that. I've heard, Lord, that he you know, because so Steve Guide is is young his point he's coming out of the military and where he's, you know.
00:46:10:08 - 00:46:28:13
Unknown
Yeah. In the in the field band of the military playing snare drum. Yeah. And so that's the bad stuff. Like that's when he's playing his gadget is when he brings out that sort of, you know. Yeah, you can hear him. There's some great videos of a drum battle with him and Vinnie. Kyle, you and Dave. Well yeah. And Vinnie Kyle, you then Dave Weller doing some just like, incredible technical fireworks.
00:46:28:13 - 00:46:46:01
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. But then Steve Guy comes in with his like you're going to do on the placed is lights up because it feels like this. So I've heard and I don't I don't know if this is verified, but I've heard stories that Steve is like playing his military stuff. And Paul walks in and says, that's what I want for that verse, and wrote the verse around the drum part.
00:46:46:03 - 00:47:00:09
Unknown
Just what I've heard. I would love to see Paul's face when he heard that. I know you did. Yeah. He was like, I mean, he's like, oh, let me, let me grab some of that. And then I'm going to give I mean, that's great arranging. When I hear this drum beat though, I don't think like slip out the back Jack.
00:47:00:11 - 00:47:17:03
Unknown
No, you know what I mean. So he had to, right. Yeah. Well, and the thing about God too is like, he's the kind of drummer like. Like you say that, like, everybody that aren't drummers are going to be like, damn, that feels good. Like, you're not saying you're not. You don't know why. But like his precision, I don't even know about him being in the military.
00:47:17:03 - 00:47:30:05
Unknown
I got a chance to play with them once, and I was. I was like, damn, listen, I played with other great drummers, but man, his thing was like, all right, can we can we talk about that for a second? Yeah, yeah. I'm literally sorry. You listen to me. Right? So you know, can we just. I know you nervous with Joseph here, but come on.
00:47:30:05 - 00:47:48:08
Unknown
No, no, I want to go. Yeah. We talk about. Here we go. And I want to talk seriously about personal anecdotes. Check this out. So this is Gads, I want to. I just want to read this is the I want to read the highlights of get up on the personal story. This is the good sketch Wikipedia got off me, man.
00:47:48:10 - 00:48:13:03
Unknown
No, go ahead. You're right. It's just a lot of quarter. Let's do it that way. It's there. Come on. I'm trying to slip out the back door. Jack. They didn't even run this. It's time, man. Okay. No need to be coy. Right? Let's go. That was shit. So here's here's just like, I swear to God, this is 25% of God's desire for you as a side man.
00:48:13:04 - 00:48:44:07
Unknown
It's just people that he's recorded an album with. Right. And most of these, by the way, he's not on one album. He's on multiple albums. Laurie Anderson, Herb Alpert, Ashford and Simpson, Chet Baker, the BGS, George Benson, Carla Bley, Brecker Brothers, Edie Brickell, Kate Bush, Larry Carlton, Ron Carter, Tracy Chapman, Ray Charles, Cyrus Chestnut, Eric Clapton, Stanley Clarke, Joe Cocker, Natalie Cole, Judy Collins, Chick Corea, Jim Croce, Christopher Cross, John Faddis, Art farmer, Maynard Ferguson, Aretha Franklin, David Foster, Peter Gabriel, art random.
00:48:44:12 - 00:49:26:18
Unknown
Like, what's the order to the Art Garfunkel alphabet? It's like Ron Carter, Christopher Cross, Art Garfunkel, David Gill, guys, Dave Grusin, Jim Hall, Freddie Hubbard, Janis Ian, Milt Jackson, Bob James, Al Jarreau, Doctor John, Quincy Jones, Rickie Lee, Jackie John, B.B. King, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Gladys Knight and the pips, Yusuf Latif, David Liebman, Kenny Loggins, oh yeah, Paul McCartney, Michael McDonald, Tito Marcello, Chuck Mangione, Barry Manilow, Lyle Mays, Bette Midler, Charles Mingus, Peter, Paul and Mary Mike Michelle, but you Kiani, Bonnie Raitt, Diana Ross, Joe Sample, a ton of David Sanborn albums Tom Scott, Paul Schaefer, Howard Shore, Carly Simon, Paul Simon, Frank Sinatra, Spyro, gyro, Steely Dan, Barbra Streisand, James Taylor, Richard T, Cedar
00:49:26:18 - 00:49:45:23
Unknown
Walton, Dionne Warwick, Chip Grover, Washington Jr, Weather Report, yeah, and Nancy Wilson. She's okay. So so yeah, I'm we're we weren't fully aware, but now we are of his resume like he's that guy and that's like that's just a glimpse. That's not even the full picture. Well no I mean I think it's like, you know, Steve Gadd is this is someone I like.
00:49:45:23 - 00:50:06:06
Unknown
When you talk to drummers, he's he's not necessarily like your average drummers drummer. What they're going to talk about him first, but like the great, great drummers that I know, like the jazz drummers especially like he's that guy, you know what I mean? So like the more because I mean, his technique is so high level that like, what do they call it?
00:50:06:06 - 00:50:27:12
Unknown
Like, you know, he's like a players player or coaches, like we're the ones who really know. But also, you know, he makes all these artists, you know, want to call him back because it's why don't you like Mingus played with like one drummer his entire career. Like, you know, was like Danny Rich man. And it's like. And Steve Gadd like I in a very strange record, you might have found the only artist that wasn't on that list, Charles Mingus.
00:50:27:12 - 00:50:45:12
Unknown
Right? He was on. Oh, he was on that. That's why I was like, that's why I'm like, I never would have known right next to Peter, Paul and Mary. All, you know, it's it's an insanely varied. Yeah, group of artists and just, I mean, the of the last part of the 20th century, in the early part of the 21st century, it's like and and he's on.
00:50:45:18 - 00:51:01:22
Unknown
It's not just like he's just on, you know, Bonnie Raitt. He's on like, street lights, like he's on like, write some of the iconic, like, it's the Steely Dan, you know, the incredible solo on Asia. Yeah, yeah, listen to that. And you listen to and you like that's all of 70s and 80s radio. Like he just owned the radio, like.
00:51:02:02 - 00:51:18:10
Unknown
Yeah. And so think about the influence on the drummers today. They came up listening to that stuff. The top guys and gals like that's this is, you know. Yeah, guys, let's do one more track. What can I say one more thing about that. Yeah, please. How do you own. We're in corner space for gas station. Go right back.
00:51:18:10 - 00:51:38:01
Unknown
Look quick thing, because how do you own a record in that way on an album. And then you just. You don't. He doesn't disappear, but then you just kind of like, go back to, you know, you don't like. That is like the genius of that guy, I guess, you know, like that you could just on every song you can.
00:51:38:01 - 00:51:50:10
Unknown
Yeah, I'm pretty good on that. Up to every one of these. Like, he's like, well, yeah. This particular man when it starts out. Yeah. Yes. We got this. Is this, that was all in this. This is the one that needed it, right? I'm going to step up a little bit and then I'm going to go back to yeah again tastes mate.
00:51:50:10 - 00:52:06:14
Unknown
He's it tastes like it could be like taste validating the story that something so much conscious about the the part of this song was he wasn't intentionally putting this as the part to shine. He was doing this is warming up as they were getting ready and Paul Simon was like, no, that's going in. Yeah. But everything he chooses to do is very subtle, subtle.
00:52:06:14 - 00:52:26:00
Unknown
His own parts are super and they are on that whole discography. I just mentioned. Yeah, and I think that's why he gets hired so much. He sounds incredible. The pocket is deep. Yeah. And he just adds the right thing at the right time and nothing more. Yeah. No. Okay. Great drummer that listens. You get gigs. How many drummers have a part that they probably get sick of being asked about?
00:52:26:00 - 00:52:37:17
Unknown
Like the way, like I was like, you know, like Paul must be Paul McCartney. Must be sick of, like, you know, like, you know, whatever. All the Beatles questions I got. Like, he's just got to be like, I don't want to answer that, you know, like 50 ways. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I'm sure he's just like, yeah, I mean, I do other stuff.
00:52:37:19 - 00:52:56:08
Unknown
Yeah. I don't know if he's ever in a situation where there's like drunk dudes are like, yeah, dude, New Orleans. Yeah. But he smacks the shit out of yeah, it'd be fun to follow. Steve got around Nam with the camera, so, Yeah, I would avoid that. Was here. I know you well. Plus, I think two people always just, like, what was that kind of snare like?
00:52:56:12 - 00:53:10:11
Unknown
Because drummers, it's like a lot of them, especially at the lower levels. It's all about the gear. It's like, well, how did you record that bass drum? Well, you got to fucking kill an ass drummer named Steve. And then you put some mix up in and make it sound like, what is what he's playing? Yeah. All right, guys, let's do one more track here.
00:53:10:12 - 00:53:34:17
Unknown
For the record, we do Peter's favorite I think I'm going to say this is Peter's favorite. I don't know if this is your desert island, Pete, but I'm I'm guessing it's this. It's not. But it was on my list of possible. Oh, is it? I changed it yesterday. It was my birthday shampoo. Desert island movie. No, I should not.
00:53:34:17 - 00:54:04:16
Unknown
I have my lights on. There's no. I'm having a good day. It's bad. James, on the roads on this one? Yeah. My beloved love. This is weird. Me seven. Yeah. One. Two. Three. One. Two. Three. I should go back to the voice in my head. Cheers. Oh, what the hell? Have a good time. That's me and I will have a good time.
00:54:04:18 - 00:54:32:04
Unknown
Stream Valerie Simpson on the back of man, one of the great background vocal lines. So simple. But to. Paranoia strikes deep in the harmony room. But I make it. Bring in Valerie Simpson and Patti Austin on this album. Nice touch, nice touch, right? Yes. Exaggerate that. They don't have no good resources to be able to pull up on.
00:54:32:08 - 00:54:53:08
Unknown
You know, it's like what I read in the paper when you left your Sheila Paul drafts for the Knicks. You know, like this guy can pick man like Jesus Christ. Well, you know, he's in the Knicks fan. Yeah. That's why I don't give him a chance. That's right. Have a good time. We got to listen this whole track because.
00:54:53:10 - 00:55:14:07
Unknown
Oh, I got to. Yeah. I can't get at the time just playing exactly the right way. I got a chance to play like he does not play loud. Like even when he's grooving like his his control of dynamics and, like, intensity, the groove are totally independent. That's what's true about this on Tuesday. It's quiet, but it's just it's subtle.
00:55:14:07 - 00:55:45:18
Unknown
Yeah, but maybe I'm not afraid of that kind of. But at the minute we're not a lot of loud moments on this album. All right. So yeah, got that for you. And today I like this line of song standing up within gives us our God bless our standard of living. Let's keep it that way. Damn tired. Tell me that's a divorce line to hit.
00:55:45:20 - 00:56:15:20
Unknown
Oh, man, oh, man. Yeah, but hopefully for both. But, you know, I'm not sure 200 and now the time and then Steve Gadd two. We have to retitle this. This is like the Steve Gadd Appreciation podcast. No. But like I'm sure Asian would turned into as well if you know like Asia like so the solo on there he's he's so busy obviously in wait like it's such a thing but like I appreciate what he's not playing on this.
00:56:15:23 - 00:56:24:07
Unknown
Hold on. There's so much like you.
00:56:24:09 - 00:56:32:07
Unknown
Feelings towards him. But I.
00:56:32:09 - 00:56:55:08
Unknown
Go with this. I love the way too. Like oh he's played all this bebop. And then all of a sudden it's almost like he remembers. Wait, I shouldn't do it. And he's like, dude, he does a little bit of walking the bar, kind of bluesy, but he's like doing everything. He can't help himself. He's just like bebop. Do you think he did just like, set up a mic and just let him run for like 30 minutes and then just pick that beat or like or it just begs the question, how?
00:56:55:08 - 00:57:28:00
Unknown
Why? I know I really like what. Yeah, let's listen to that transition. Might have been Paul side part of the whole. Like I'm downtrodden. So fuck it. Let's just have some bebop. Let's have some matter. Yeah. Fuck it. I'm gonna put it the end. It's gonna listen, Stevie. Anyways, I'm gonna Mr. Stevie, whatever the time for me.
00:57:28:02 - 00:57:34:21
Unknown
To scale is when the record label guys were like, wait, what are.
00:57:34:23 - 00:57:52:01
Unknown
You talking about the most? The most, like, traditionally phase out two does it all? No. Yeah. The most traditionally marketable song on the entire. I'm just going to put a giant bebop solo saxophone sound to be like, he comes in like he could have come in. Well, first of all, Phil Woods would not necessarily be the guy. Like, that's his kind of play.
00:57:52:01 - 00:58:10:04
Unknown
You know, he came up, he was one of the Charlie Parker acolytes, and it was like bebop for life, you know? But he could have come in over that groove, that 1 to 4, you know, 1 to 5 and kind of beat it. Did, or even Brecker or Sanborn for their song Something Else on here, but not soloing.
00:58:10:09 - 00:58:31:11
Unknown
So it's kind of cool that they have him doing his thing, even though it's just like, what the. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I love bebop little. I'm like, how do you think this album has aged? I mean, because it was it one album of the year, 1976. I remember growing up and this was a big deal album in my parents household and their record collection.
00:58:31:11 - 00:58:48:18
Unknown
I remember being in love with it from the time I was a kid. You know, respectfully, he's like his parents. He wasn't his household. My parents. Well, this is definitely one of those albums that was like, I inherited was your parents record in a way, if you're a certain age, for sure. For me, it was because, you know, my parents got married in 1975, not divorced, still got nothing.
00:58:48:20 - 00:59:18:02
Unknown
And, and for me, this is something that. Wait, what year were you born? Seven. No, 78. Okay, cool. Yeah. But, I don't hear people talking about this as much. No, it's. But, you know, like. Yeah, it is weird because this is in my mind, like, because I came of age at a time. I feel like, you know, we're all in the last gasp of, like, boomer dumb, you know, we're like, oh, we're seeing it in real time.
00:59:18:02 - 00:59:53:19
Unknown
Like boomers go from like the heroes of, like, culture and society to long us like you like, yeah, I'm gonna do something right. Yeah. And you're like, whoa. But you know, and it's funny, like, night game is on here. Like, I have this theory that I'm just gonna workshop here. Yeah, like like like peak American culture is like 1935 to 2005, and it's like, 1935, you get canned beer night baseball games and like, monopoly and then like, I'm like, where this is going and you kind of like, get this like thing and then like peaks right around like 1970, and then you just kind of like this long tailed down to like iTunes
00:59:53:19 - 01:00:17:21
Unknown
2005 and like whatever else. And boomers are such a big part of culture. So, you know, like in my mind, this is like an unassailable album. Like it's like you can't say anything bad, but but it does feel like as, as as as as boomers of living lived long enough to come. Villains. It's like this album is now it's gone from, you know, maybe overrated to, like, so underrated.
01:00:17:21 - 01:00:35:23
Unknown
I think it's underrated now. You know, it is quintessentially a baby boomer expression. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's how a baby boomer deals literally deals with his divorce. Yeah, yeah. And it's a really interesting take that you would not see a similar expression today from the the generations, the subsequent. This is the most boom. We didn't talk about your kind.
01:00:35:23 - 01:00:52:05
Unknown
But this is the second the last track on the album. The lyrics. You're kind, you're so kind. You rescued me when I was blind. And you put me on your pillow. You know, whatever. You're so good to me. You introduce me to your neighborhood. Seems like I ain't had so many friends before us because you're good. You're so good.
01:00:52:06 - 01:01:06:05
Unknown
Why do you treat me like? Why don't you treat me like other humans do? Is just a mystery to me. It gets me agitated when I think that you're so that you're going to love me indefinitely. So. Goodbye. Goodbye. I'm going to leave you now. And here's a reason why I like to sleep with the the window open.
01:01:06:05 - 01:01:35:12
Unknown
You like to keep the window closed? Just go talk to a therapist poem. Quit that. I know that level of pettiness right now. It's like you're building up to this beauty. It's like the windows go. That was just that. That's like, I don't know, that's boom, boom in a nutshell. Is that great? Yeah, it's a great call. Wow.
01:01:35:14 - 01:02:01:17
Unknown
Also done in the form of the blues. Yeah. In a 12 bar blues form. Again, an expression you're kind. So come to rescue me. When I was blind and you put me on your pillow when I was on the wall. Yeah. Okay. Console can.
01:02:01:19 - 01:02:21:18
Unknown
And you're good. You're so good. You introduce me to your neighborhood. Seem like I ain't never had so many friends before. That's because you're good. That's the blues. Yes, he gets on this record. That last line, you.
01:02:21:20 - 01:02:50:17
Unknown
Why you don't treat me like the other humans? No. Paul Simon made you seven. Correct me. Optimal. Yeah. Like you said, Ultimate Boomer is old, and it keeps me agitated when I visit you. Vietnam is horrible, but it's over. Yeah. Party Nixon, party to Nixon. They would. I'm gonna need for it. He's great to get to sweep the window open.
01:02:50:19 - 01:03:19:22
Unknown
You keep the window closed. So good. Bad. Like, what an asshole. I'll suck. Oh, she gave you everything. She rescued you. She gave you friends. Treats you better than anybody in the neighborhood. You're so kind. Goodbye. Like later. I wouldn't want to be in any club that would have me as a member. Yeah, dude. For sure. Wow. Yeah, man, that's the apex moment of of Boomer is a man of divorce on this record.
01:03:19:22 - 01:03:35:11
Unknown
Just like what in the world? You know what's interesting? You mentioning? You know, your parents, your dad say this was such an hour, I was thinking back to like, why was this? I didn't hear this record growing up. My dad is a little older and he I don't a generation he he right. But now he's a silent generation.
01:03:35:11 - 01:03:50:12
Unknown
He didn't know this is a difference. But even when I think with boomers, like we're all aware, like my kids are just like especially the younger ones that are like Gen Z, they're like, oh, millennials, man. I'm like, wait, oh, you all the same. Yeah, yeah. And I call one of them an iPad baby. No. The other day they're calling I was an iPad baby.
01:03:50:12 - 01:04:05:03
Unknown
I didn't have one till I was this age. I was like, okay, cool. But I was telling my dad, this is like within the last year. I said something about Boomer or whatever. And he's like, we had to look it up because I was like, wait, are you a boomer? He's like, I don't know. He's like, we didn't ever talk about.
01:04:05:05 - 01:04:23:13
Unknown
It's like, you guys brought that thing up. He didn't know what generation I'm looking on. I said, oh, actually, you're in the Silent Generation. He's like, okay, I'll shut up. Is that what you're trying to say? Like, he had no concept, like, how do you go now? You just naturally do five years of your life. And but like, there wasn't a thing like, especially for the boomers, they were just like, well, this is our world, dude.
01:04:23:13 - 01:04:41:16
Unknown
They created Greg, redefine what it is to be a teenager and what a dick. Like the 60s. Yeah, like this is their world. Well, that's but this is a very typical thing of that of the baby boomer generation. They created the concept of a generation and being a group. And by the way, like I don't disparage boomers as a generation, I actually think it's super fascinating.
01:04:41:16 - 01:05:00:09
Unknown
I also love the culture they created and and I think I just like the most Gen-X thing, you know, but here's the here's the here's the Gen-X think it's like, here's the genetics thing is like, I'm just talking about, you know, like, let's get back to work because because they were so impactful on our lives, the generations that happened, they're our parents, obviously.
01:05:00:09 - 01:05:25:01
Unknown
And they they've, you know, created this culture. It's just like, can we just like, take a break from talking about, you know, the Beatles for a second and Paul Simon and even that's a lot of what we talk about. But, I think they're going to be studied for long after we're gone, because I think it's a fascinating case of this, like explosion in this particular time, this particular place, make some of the most incredible art, and redefine what culture is.
01:05:25:02 - 01:05:48:10
Unknown
Yeah, but I'm tired of it for now. And we have our time. But they're going to they're going to want to live. I mean, nothing matters like what matters before 1935. What matters like after. Like nothing's going to nothing sticky from before. Right? But there's not that silo. Yeah, I know, but still president. Still president. Yeah, yeah. And I think that that like this and we, we always, you know, get knocked for like we hit in so many records in the 70s.
01:05:48:10 - 01:06:16:08
Unknown
Sue us. There's a lot of great records from that time. Yeah. Tell us what's sticky after you know whatever. You know exactly what we were talking about it early. We had a list, but it wasn't like this list, bro. Teenage and 20 something boomers were an unbelievable force of nature. Yeah, incredible. And I mean, look, there was also a lot of luck, like, any kind of, like, generation or culture or country or people that like, hit, hit on something like, yeah, it's like remain humble and realize that you were at a time when like records and radio, it was pre-internet.
01:06:16:08 - 01:06:28:09
Unknown
So like there was technology, everything kind of lined up on the wall. You live in a oh, you didn't have to go to war, but you won the war. You got to go to Vietnam. But you know. Yeah, yeah, but not if you were rich. Not rich. Yeah. Most of the boomers that made the cold didn't go, you know.
01:06:28:09 - 01:06:44:22
Unknown
Exactly. And I mean, also like like you said, like we have great standards. Good old USA, great set of living. Let's let's keep it. Yeah. Let's keep it that way. Yeah. For us, for us. So by going civil till now, you know, there's a wealth divide and everything. So I mean, crypto baby on the way out, just crypto.
01:06:44:22 - 01:07:09:06
Unknown
Let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's let's let's do this. But the dollar who needs it anyway? Like what's right that served us well. That you know, we're going to fight it off for all y'all. To top it all month long now the dollar and I got all this I'm saving money. So now dollars don't matter I need crypto oh I give up.
01:07:09:07 - 01:07:30:12
Unknown
Meanwhile Steve guys yeah. Oh my God what a what a pocket. All those guys. Oh crowd. Rolling stones selling out stadiums. No one else can. God damn it. And, because desert island tracks on this one. What? What are what? Our votes. So I've got 50 ways to lose your lover. I think it's just like, you know, sometimes on these, I like to go anti-establishment.
01:07:30:15 - 01:07:44:12
Unknown
And after just the last five minutes of talking, I kind of wish I had a little bit more. You bring out your jinx. Yeah, but now I'm like, I'm gonna fall in line. Like I should do an accent. I mean, look, that's like, to me, that's the track that there's super interesting stuff musically, guys. You just killing it?
01:07:44:13 - 01:07:59:21
Unknown
Of course. But it's also like. I mean, it's that because, look, I don't know if you've heard how we do this. Adam kind of likes to use this as a catchall for whatever he missed earlier in the episode. I use it literally as if I'm stuck on a desert island. I can only have one of these tracks. What do I want it to be?
01:07:59:21 - 01:08:11:16
Unknown
So that would be it. Yeah. Very subjective. Sell me out, man. Sorry, man. This is just what we do to each other. Just what do you got for your desert island track? I'm going to take. I'm gonna treat it like like like Peter. Like if I was really stuck in an island, what song would I want to hear?
01:08:11:16 - 01:08:29:19
Unknown
Repeat. Because, like, I think my little town is my favorite. Yeah, but 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover. It's like, I don't think I could ever. I don't think I would ever be bored of it. 50 years later on an island. I'm not going. It's just it's. Yeah, that's the mood of being stuck in an island, right? Also, could you imagine the rhymes you can come up with stuff.
01:08:29:21 - 01:08:46:11
Unknown
I know with that game you have 50 courses of, you know, like. And it's got such diversity around the farm. It's almost two tunes, you know, it's like the minor. Then it goes to the, you know, it's really like. So I also think about this is what I would like to listen to on a desert island, despite what my co-host says.
01:08:46:16 - 01:09:08:00
Unknown
And I, I picked I do it for Your Love. I have been in love with that song from the first time I heard it, and I still am. Okay, apex moments on the on. What do you think? What you got, Justin? You know what? I'm going, I'm going with the writer of Mister Magic, J. Ralph McDonald.
01:09:08:01 - 01:09:25:15
Unknown
Yeah. And, on, on, my little town. You know? Yeah. Just getting into that, like that little section of that with, with the horns. Yeah, that hat on that is unbelievable. But it's driving it forward, man. It's like. But the, you know, the bridge on still crazy. I don't know, man. I'm going to go with the I'm going to go with that moment at the end of my little town.
01:09:25:17 - 01:09:47:06
Unknown
Nice. I'm going with the bridge. I'm still crazy. From the Bob James arrangement into the Brecker solo, I think is my favorite part. Okay, so we're going to change what you have written here. Gotcha. What are you talking about? I got Brecker oh, you got oh, God, I got, I got you, I got you. No. But you the animosity in the barrel, you see, this is a glimpse into, the off camera situation here.
01:09:47:08 - 01:10:02:17
Unknown
Oh, this is why we don't usually be shielded. We got we got royalty. Now it's kind of through. We gotta get it. We're still holding a grudge from the Louis Armstrong episode, so go ahead. That's right. All right. I mean, I got Phil Woods, you know, it's great, man. I have a good time. Like, he finally somebody had it.
01:10:02:21 - 01:10:23:08
Unknown
Everyone's having a good time. Finally gave you finally some jazz street cred at a sad boy summer. And he brought, like, Charlie Parker and the jazz police all up in that beard. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, that's it's the most unusual and jarring, but I think it's a cool thing. So, bespoke Spotify playlist. If this were on a playlist, what would it be?
01:10:23:08 - 01:10:46:12
Unknown
I have Lawrence Hampton playlist. That's Paul Simon, famously friends, like best friends with Lorne Michaels, SNL creator. And, I just feel like if Lauren has a house in the Hamptons, which I assume he's got at least one multiple. Yeah, that he's got an old, like, third gen iPod out there that just has. It's just like it just says Lawrence Hamilton playlist.
01:10:46:12 - 01:11:07:09
Unknown
It's mostly Paul Simon and, and Rolling Stones, but yeah. And then wasn't there a connection with the was the first Paul Simon appearance on SNL in that first season? Well, so yeah, my little town, they do my little town on the very second episode of Saturday Night Live. Ever. Yeah. Okay. So for bespoke Spotify playlist, I have.
01:11:07:09 - 01:11:26:15
Unknown
Okay. Full disclosure here. I saw yours first, and it's so good. Lawrence. Hey. I was like, I got nervous, and I went to Claud for some help on this, and this is what Claud gave, but I kind of like it's still a large language model. Yeah. Still spinning after all these years. Okay, yeah, because this I mean, this is a great like, this is fun listening to it.
01:11:26:15 - 01:11:44:03
Unknown
And here we can trigger this stuff. But like, you get the vinyl go in there. Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I like you. I shouldn't until Claud, man, I honestly was. Hamptons playlist was so good. I hate to cop out. I hate to have come all the way out here to just to to to to just, you know, shrivel in the moment.
01:11:44:05 - 01:12:02:09
Unknown
But I've Lauren's Hamptons playlist is like it's really good. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah, I'll take it. I don't look at that. Look at it more. It's like you're not degrading yourself to this ridiculousness. That's the way you should look at. Okay. All right. Up next, what is coming up next on the playlist? What what are the other album's tracks?
01:12:02:09 - 01:12:20:04
Unknown
Anything that pairs with this. So on this I did, because I always like to think about, especially this stuff that's kind of before my time a little bit, like what was happening at that time. I was like, even in history, that's like really interesting. It's like because, you know, like when we did a Louis Armstrong, it's like he's revolutionizing.
01:12:20:04 - 01:12:36:06
Unknown
Like we look back on the 20s and we think the 20s is like jazz hands. And like, then you have this artists that like, set up not single handedly, but more so than it has ever happened. This Louis Armstrong episode of Paul Simon, I can't remember. No, but it's like but then you think about the 20s, like the depression and just all these things.
01:12:36:06 - 01:12:54:00
Unknown
It's it's kind of amazing. So 75 is not that long ago, but these are three records that came out in 75. Bob Dylan's Blood on the tracks, Earth, Wind and Fire, That's the Way of the World and Keith Jarrett's Köln Concerts, the best selling solo piano record of all time. Yeah, we got to do That's the Way of the world at some point.
01:12:54:00 - 01:13:17:10
Unknown
Yeah. Also, we got to do a whole concert at some point. Yeah, I like those picks. Those are good. Justin. Yeah. You know, I was I went with, seasons 1977 self-titled just because it felt like it. Come on. You know, like, after we listened to this on Lauryn Hampton's Hampton play on Lawrence Hampton playlist. Like you, I like.
01:13:17:10 - 01:13:32:03
Unknown
Yeah, I want to hear like Darkstar bikes and, you know, the yacht vibe. So yeah, yeah. If I yeah, I'm going to go in revisions. I'm going to go like I want to listen to this album and then I want to listen to the album and then you can divorce your wife. No, you know what? You gotta slip out the back door.
01:13:32:06 - 01:13:53:23
Unknown
I mean, I love, you know, the classic is like the Pet Sounds Beatles playing off each other. But I love stories like this where someone who I think is a top tier artist here is another top tier artist, feels challenged and inspired. Because don't forget, Paul Simon at this point has made some bangers like, yeah, it's not like he's just like an aspiring artist.
01:13:53:23 - 01:14:10:17
Unknown
He's already been through Simon and Garfunkel, he's already made the self-titled album he's already made, and here goes Rhymin Simon and he gets beat by Stevie Wonder, and he gets super into inner visions. And just like how we were talking about, I have this vision. I don't know if it's true, but I feel like when Stevie made Talking Book, I can hear Let It Be on that.
01:14:10:17 - 01:14:24:16
Unknown
Like I can hear Stevie listening to the Beatles and being like, I can do that, but better. And I feel like this is Paul's. Maybe not. I can do that bit better. But he's like, answer to inner visions and his thoughts about it. Not that you could ever compete with inner vision. Yeah, but Paul's not scared to like, go to the mat.
01:14:24:21 - 01:14:42:10
Unknown
You know for sure, right? You and I really like that thought that these two albums were like one after the other, at least in Paul Simon's mind. Yeah. That's great. It's great pick. Yeah. Quibble bits. Anything that you want to come up with on this I'm not sure. Guys, I'm going to go. You know, we talked about this a little bit, but it's this is a front loaded album.
01:14:42:10 - 01:15:06:09
Unknown
Yeah. Like the first side of this is this record is incredible. The second side is I, you know like boomers. Yeah. The first half was such boomers are taking strays today. We don't want to general. I'm just wondering like could they have. But wasn't this the era of the front loaded? Like literally. We have a fix for this, though.
01:15:06:09 - 01:15:25:12
Unknown
And this goes in my, quibble bits. Leaving off slip slide in a way was is which which was stupid when the album was slip sliding one by Justin that is. Well, that's the way you sound. Yeah. That's how you hear the demo of Slip Sliding Away on Spotify. But if imagine the slip side in a way is track number 7 or 8 on this album.
01:15:25:13 - 01:15:46:17
Unknown
Unbelievable. Unbelievable, unbelievable. Yeah, the rescues, the second song, I mean, the second side is great, but it needed it needed a slip slide. I needed a song that good. Yeah. Really great call. Yeah. I think it's just like it's the whole thing of like, we talk about the advantage of technology at this time and like, you know, just to be able to write stuff like this and have people's attention and ear for a huge album like this.
01:15:46:17 - 01:16:09:13
Unknown
Yeah. But there is another thing of like the turning over of the record, because I remember, like certain records, like it was just like, no, you don't. And that was okay. Like it was still worth the seven bucks or whatever. But and that's why I think, like you talk about certain records like Stevie had that wrong, where it was like it was about the apex moments on the middle of the B-side and stuff, especially if you're into music like that was an exciting thing, but that was not the norm.
01:16:10:00 - 01:16:31:05
Unknown
So quibble bits I have, and if you're feel free to pause this or fast forward this for some folks. If you don't want to hear this, well, how would you know? Because you're right. You set up or you don't know. Some of the grooves on this record are sanitized to me a little bit. Let's dig into like, the whole I mean, there's nothing that's not grooving.
01:16:31:06 - 01:16:57:12
Unknown
So you're saying that you're saying that Steve Guy isn't grooving? No, I'm saying of course he's groove, but I think he's been and I wouldn't even say I have no knowledge. I it's not like, oh, I heard they told him, don't play this or don't dig in. I think it's just he appropriately played the situation and listening to it with you guys and getting your feedback, I'm kind of turned around on this a little bit because I think situationally, especially as you go through and listen to this record, everything's like we get into this thing where we're really analyzing and I'm thinking like, oh, I know what Steve Guy can do.
01:16:57:12 - 01:17:12:01
Unknown
I know what the Muscle Shoals guys can do, but it's like, you don't have to bring any of that if you just take it for what it is. It totally, you know, stands on its way. But it's not like like Steve Guy can really hit a New Orleans groove like two acts that. No problem. So, you know, you're not wrong, man.
01:17:12:01 - 01:17:29:17
Unknown
Because you know and Paul like we listen to Cecilia Cecilia up top have like the like. And then this guy also got him in rhythm of the Saints. And then you listen to the demo of Garnett last. Yeah. Versus not you know Richard he's playing great. You know whatever. But it was my demo of Gone last compared to the what.
01:17:29:20 - 01:17:52:01
Unknown
You know you're like exactly. Now that's probably the most sanitized track on him. Listen to that. Which is weird because like Richard T I think is one of the greatest like blues, gospel anything pianist. It sounds like it's from a musical. Yeah, yeah. It's like the way to go. Yeah. I'm not gonna be on here. That. And there's nothing wrong with the way that this is, like, perfect gospel musical.
01:17:52:02 - 01:18:11:01
Unknown
But you know what someone said? I don't know who you know. Someone said white people have to listen to this, you know? Oh. I'm sure. Sorry, guys. This was that. This is you guys. No no no no no, this is totally error for that. Yeah. And it was like yeah please. It's probably like, yeah, we need to win a Grammy.
01:18:11:03 - 01:18:27:13
Unknown
I said, Richard he's killing okay. We know he is killing, but like this is probably the least is weird because like the inspirations like even you hear what he's like, but they do. But it's almost like he would've been like they did it then. Like, there's just little things that, you know, you're like, there's nothing wrong with that.
01:18:27:13 - 01:18:41:16
Unknown
Yeah, but if you know. So to me. But again, like, it's it's kind of better when you don't know how the sausage is made to listen to this stuff because you're like, wow, this is gospel. You know what it's like. Yeah. I mean, my parents would totally be like, oh, this is gospel. I hear what you're saying. Go to church.
01:18:41:16 - 01:19:08:12
Unknown
I think if I could, if I could paraphrase what I think you're trying to say here is it feels like there's like, these are the grooves are in broad strokes, like, we're not getting the details that you would get in sort of like a more loose, gritty situation where you're just letting the musicians do what they want. It just feels like this is a songwriter's album, and we're going to we're going to do this in a in the sort of Broadway possible so that people in the middle Missouri, yeah, can listen to this and feel okay about it at that time.
01:19:08:14 - 01:19:24:19
Unknown
Yeah. And yeah, I mean, that was done all the time. And I don't know that like, you know, was Paul Simon and Phil Ramone and others like like I definitely can see Bob James being like, okay, I can help make these. I mean, I don't I don't know how conscious or if that was just sort of their default way of like, oh, I like gospel.
01:19:24:19 - 01:19:41:16
Unknown
Let's do some good. Let's. Paul wasn't afraid to like, stretch, you know, like so I can't maybe it was him. It was the zone he was in. But I can't imagine Paul was would have been afraid to go off the rails with, you know, I mean, he's made whole albums where they just were just jamming. Yeah. And then pieced it together later.
01:19:41:16 - 01:20:00:17
Unknown
Yeah. So Graceland was made. Is they just like he just recorded a bunch of people just playing. Yeah. And then pieced together. So. Yeah. And that has a whole that's gone now. That's a whole other thing. But, Yeah, I can see that. Peter, I don't fully agree in that. I do think when I think about this album, I don't think about like, oh, this has got to be like some authentic gospel.
01:20:00:17 - 01:20:17:19
Unknown
It's more about the expression that Paul's lyrics are telling the story of. And I get that, and I think it's a balance, because you can lose that pretty easily if it goes out of whack, you know what I mean? Maybe it's maybe Paul felt the stops being a divorce album. If we go to, you know, the two up with two, right.
01:20:17:21 - 01:20:33:05
Unknown
You know. True. And there's just a cohesion thing that nowadays wouldn't matter as much because of how people listen. Yeah. But like if it had been going like, you know, the Muscle Shoals guys were like, really? And then you're going, you know, singer songwriter, it could be jarring. It would have been probably, probably would have been John. Yeah.
01:20:33:08 - 01:20:50:13
Unknown
So maybe I understand why I think they did it, but, All right. Would you have quibble with. Yeah, I did, I did the it was front loaded, just Justin I kind of have the same one. Oh that's right, that's it. Submitter I'm listening. How snobby is it? Is it, is it on the low end of the scale where it's very commercially accessible?
01:20:50:13 - 01:21:10:21
Unknown
Or is it at the high end of the scale where it's super snobby? Not so. That's how we're defining it, that, I mean, that's how I've always decided to kind of. Peter, I put this as a two. Yeah. I mean, I put it as a three just because, like, I almost think it's sort of a one. But, as, as we mentioned before and talked about like it's sort of changed over time.
01:21:11:00 - 01:21:22:09
Unknown
So I don't really have it, like, is this snobby now? I mean, definitely like I want to I mean, it was a huge record when it came out. So it's not snobby, right? It's a one or a ten. It's been it's like it's either it's like this, it's not like a so I'm torn. It's like 1 or 2.
01:21:22:09 - 01:21:40:01
Unknown
It's like this is quintessential New York. And that in one sense. And so it's like a ten. Yeah. But it's also like what's it's not it's pretty accessible stuff. You guys, you know like oh and see Justin's seen right through and found the fault with this anemometer. You know that imprecise incoherent measuring tool. It's kind of this you know what?
01:21:40:01 - 01:22:01:12
Unknown
This is kind of like a Woody Allen movie. Like it's like if you're the right kind of fan, it's super accessible. Right? But if you're not the right kind of fan, it is not. You're like, what is this? And it's a little bit outdated. Yeah, it's a super snobby car. It's kind of like that. But if you go in on Subarus, you know, that's it's it's hard to rate the same way you give a number 1 or 10, I don't know, it's five.
01:22:01:16 - 01:22:17:10
Unknown
So I fall in that. Well that's what I did. Okay. He gets mad if I give it a five because I still think it's a one or a ten. Yeah. Why? That's why I sometimes I think it's the same thing. So I'll average it out. Okay. So far I've seen five I mean this is five. So classic anemometer right now this is the perfect anemometer.
01:22:17:11 - 01:22:34:22
Unknown
Snow. Is it better than Kobe? Is it better than Miles Davis is 1959 masterpiece kind of blew. You had maybe I don't know how he changed it. I don't I don't want to personally, but I was I was messed up about that. I thought I saw that and I was like I was surprised. I knew he liked this record, but I was surprised.
01:22:34:22 - 01:22:50:03
Unknown
I just thought about it some more. I've been listening to it. Obviously you had an exclamation point after maybe two. Well, only because that's been a thing of me I usually get on. Peter always does maybe, or like even he doesn't like. Right. So maybe I never do it, but I kind of I did it first. I did move to no into the no category.
01:22:50:04 - 01:23:10:13
Unknown
Okay. I just think it's just not as good of a work of art as kind of. Lewis. What what had you considering it as how important it was for me as a musician? Okay. Like, you know, again, I learned that roads part on like one of the first things I transcribed that wasn't jazz. So that's how we're deciding if it's better than I think.
01:23:10:14 - 01:23:42:22
Unknown
B is like how much stuff we learned off. No, no. If it's personal, I have a personal connection to it. It means it has meant a lot to me. That's all. Even as a songwriter of like of of you know, I occasionally do like to write pop songs and Paul Simon is like my number one for learning how to because he does a similar, a similar workflow that I do where he apparently does, you know, melodies syllable first and then writes a whole form around it and then inserts a story later, which is, by the way, insane for how great his stories are like.
01:23:42:22 - 01:24:01:19
Unknown
Usually when the lyrics are that good, it's the other way around. Reverse engineer. He's he's like, he would be a Sudoku master at filling in blank spaces because he's just so good at that. And so it meant a lot to me personally. So yes, but I did move it away because I am a rational human being now. I feel bad, I don't I don't want to give you a hard time.
01:24:01:22 - 01:24:18:18
Unknown
No, no, no, I was thinking the same thing. I remember that I saw that maybe. Yeah, that was surprise. Your relentless, What you got, Justin? Better say hell no. Hell no no, no, I, I had that I had a strong no, I didn't know what the exclamation on another record. I'm. I got to be more confident. Yeah, yeah.
01:24:18:20 - 01:24:34:19
Unknown
I mean, it's just that's our first hell no on the guy, but I like it because there could be a hell yes, which would be like a 11, like. Oh, yeah, that's way better. We could have a whole meter. It could be like, no, hell no. Hell, maybe no. Yeah. Even I get stronger. Yeah, f no, you know, but okay.
01:24:35:03 - 01:24:52:05
Unknown
Accouterments, album cover and whatnot. I have a ten just for the mustache. The mustache is good. I have a nine, and I probably would have done 7 or 8. The reason I did nine is because I know I'm starting to see. I didn't realize how influential this style is, right now. Like there's a bunch of people kind of.
01:24:52:05 - 01:25:10:14
Unknown
And it's come and gone a couple times with having the little picture within the solid background on the cover. Yeah. I'm seeing that so that I don't know why that would push it up higher, but it seems like it would be important, I'm going to say like, for, like it and and like on one hand, I personally, I like it.
01:25:10:14 - 01:25:42:11
Unknown
I think it's one of his best. I still think the self-titled album cover is better. Incredible. And then like, bookends is like a great. But so if we, if we, if we're including Paul Hawkins, an all timer, it's an all timer. So it's maybe like the third best, but like, it might be partially like, it's not like, it's just not in your face enough that I wonder if that's why the album is, you know, you know, for, for for casual listeners, you know, I think if you're pulling something, you're going to pick a Paul Simon album off of like, whatever streaming like, I don't know if that album cover is going to like,
01:25:42:13 - 01:26:00:19
Unknown
and it might be why it's aged. Not as great as it may be. Could have. I mean, it's aged sonically very well. Yeah. But in terms of like in the popular imagination of like what a great album is, like a more like iconic, right. Like, you know, cover that pops my definitely not made for like a little thumbnail.
01:26:00:19 - 01:26:16:12
Unknown
No, it is definitely not made for that age. It's made for a 12 inch. Yeah. Oh yeah. Cover. Yeah. I think what I like about it is, you know, we're talking about the divorce. We're talking about what personal things that it means to Paul. It looks like someone snapped a photo of a guy trying to look happy when he's going through some shit.
01:26:16:12 - 01:26:35:06
Unknown
You know what I mean? It totally does. Like, he's grown a mustache. Then he has, like, a hair cowboy. He's definitely going through a breakup like an Indiana Jones. Got it? Yeah, but he's just queens. It's like, this is a man who's living at the Plaza. He's. He's cosplaying. He's the guy, but he's gotta get some chicks. He's got a new he's got he's got a new apartment.
01:26:35:06 - 01:26:58:09
Unknown
Feel like Ikea furniture that he just got. He's grown a mustache and his hair out. He's a guy. He's got really nice. Robert. Yeah, he's read about 70s swingers. He grew the mustache. Yeah, I always saw a subculture here. I'm like, Yeah. Well, I think that also. This is such a great reminder. And thank you, Justin, for being here.
01:26:58:09 - 01:27:17:17
Unknown
And bringing your, your spirit like, man, you're here and having listened to you so much. Like your approach to like, music appreciation and like connection is so deep. And I think, you know, we we go into that and then we'll get pulled out with like oh the a major seven bro high five. But I mean it brings back in like what you were saying too.
01:27:17:17 - 01:27:38:05
Unknown
It's like the personal connection with these things. Yeah. Guys like the accouterments right. Yeah. Like that. Yes. We could sit here and be like, well the design is not according to the standards of whatever. But like when you learn a chord or like you're going through a divorce. I mean, could you imagine if you were going through your own breakup at the same time and you lived in New York and you like to where in the other, like you would connect on that?
01:27:38:09 - 01:27:58:07
Unknown
You'd be like, that's my man. And I mean, you and and you're trying to keep your standard of living going, you know? Yeah. Papa got some high fives walking around the city. Got for sure. Yeah. But I mean that's the. And then the music, you know, I think more than holds up in terms of that. And then if you have that connection with it even more so.
01:27:58:07 - 01:28:16:12
Unknown
So it's been exciting for me to like just experience this with you guys. This is the book you're talking about, Woody Allen. This is this is this is I don't know, like, this is a woody. This is I don't know, like, that's what his final thoughts is like. Yeah, that is the great it like it's it's it's a I mean masterfully made.
01:28:16:12 - 01:28:36:19
Unknown
There's almost nothing you can nitpick but you can nitpick, you know, but it's like it's it's just it's it's like precision is great. It's great. Yeah. I've gone back and forth about like whether, like how much I love this or not over just the time I've been here in Saint Louis. Well, I'm, I'm, I'm, I love, I love it, I think it's it's at that stage of its life where people are kind of going back and forth on it.
01:28:36:19 - 01:28:59:14
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. And we all are kind of going back and forth on even that era, on certain in certain genres. And it's like there's, you know, I think to your point about the broadness of the grooves and not going fully deep on it, I think it holds it back in retrospect a little bit. Yeah, yeah. And I think even any of the quibble bits like that one or any of the things we've talked about that may be a little questionable.
01:29:00:18 - 01:29:17:01
Unknown
I think we'd have to question more the times and the way the music industry was set up at that time. Yeah. It's not like a Paul thing or even a Phil Ramone thing, although obviously they're part of that system, but like, it would be more of a slight indictment upon that whole period, you know, and the system they were working with, it's not the fault of.
01:29:17:03 - 01:29:37:22
Unknown
But then today we were talking earlier tonight, our current system like where's tracks or songs, whatever you wanna call them are much more about the atmosphere created in the vibe. Yeah, this would feel a little antiseptic and a little like, but like. But I feel like it's known. But at the same time, I feel like no one values the level of songwriting here.
01:29:37:23 - 01:29:56:17
Unknown
No one values that as much as they should anymore. First minute and 15 seconds in my little town. What is happening? Yeah, same. Well, you would never hear that on a modern like from a from one of the biggest pop artists in the world. Yeah. Writing a song like that, where it's just this through composed line and chords are happening and space is happening.
01:29:56:22 - 01:30:15:20
Unknown
And then there's this, like, hook out of nowhere. Yeah, these two incredible, iconic, angelic voices that have sung together since they were children. Yeah. And apparently we're not too fond of each other at that point. You hated each other. There's baggage there. But, like, just the way it's written with the with the the sheen of the 70s production.
01:30:15:20 - 01:30:36:03
Unknown
Yeah. Is, I think makes it stand alone. A little bit. But it's interesting because that has not aged well because people don't just because people don't value it. People don't do it. No one necessarily, no one has the time to like, make it through like those extended verses. People don't even write bridges anymore, like, let alone like a bridge that changes keys by a major third.
01:30:36:04 - 01:30:53:05
Unknown
You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's wow, a bridge over Troubled Water. No one writes that anymore. I think we gotta go out on that beat. Wow, Justin, thank you so much, man. Thank you for the pleasure. And great. Even my daughter loves Saint Louis Bass, whether you want us or not, you gotta come to the earth, wind and fire.
01:30:53:11 - 01:31:10:18
Unknown
Yeah. Done and done. And I'm sure you guys already know about it. And listen. But check out Justin on broken record with, occasional guest appearances from Rick Rubin and Mark Riggs now doing Tetragrammaton. But, you know, we love that, too. I love Tetragrammaton, but rip broken record. That's why I'm doing that. Yeah. What do you got coming up on the broken record?
01:31:11:09 - 01:31:25:01
Unknown
That you can talk about that I can talk about, you know, or that you can not if you want to break news here, do I, can I break some some news is there to the an hour and a half hard that was there. This is the beginning of the show. So what have coming up? You know, I'm excited.
01:31:25:01 - 01:31:41:14
Unknown
I, this is maybe not that exciting, but I'm excited talking to John Oates next month, which I'm excited about because I talked to Daryl Hall. Yeah. You two months ago. Right. Are you trying to mend that relationship? Yeah. Are they talking? I'll say there's not much I thought, like like when I was talking to Daryl Hall, and I love I love both of those guys, but I was talking to.
01:31:41:14 - 01:31:59:11
Unknown
They're hard. They gotta bring up. Yeah, I, I approached that interview by like, I'm going to pick some, like, songs to highlight where it's very clear like they, they, they collaborated and like the kind of like in my little town, like. Yeah, like I wanted to pick some stuff. It was like, look, what you guys did is undeniable without without saying it.
01:31:59:12 - 01:32:18:14
Unknown
Right? And he wouldn't budge an inch. He was just like, John didn't do shit on. He never has. He's he saying that? I told him to sing that part like he never wrote anything. Like I think he wrote half of that song, you know, like, listen. So I, I am going to like, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to pull some quotes from my Daryl interview and even read them back to John.
01:32:18:15 - 01:32:33:10
Unknown
Yeah. See what he thinks. Oh that's amazing. That's going to be great. So I'm excited to do that. And you know, other than that, man, I got a kid comments I'm gonna take a little break. There you go. Like I said, I got some other fun stuff that matches this. This. Yeah. That's right. Good. Well, man, we appreciate you.
01:32:33:10 - 01:33:48:20
Unknown
And this is fun. It's good to be here. Thanks, guys. Till next time. Boom. You'll hear it. Yeah.
01:33:48:22 - 01:35:08:11
Unknown
For.
01:35:08:13 - 01:35:51:10
Unknown
Me.
01:35:51:12 - 01:37:07:12
Unknown
I.
01:37:07:14 - 01:38:10:15
Unknown
Boom. Boom.