00:00:00:00 - 00:00:22:21
Unknown
If you don't mind. What's up? What did you do this weekend? Man, I up going up to New York, last minute gig. And this dude called this tune. That was super hard. And I, like, crashed and burn. And I was like, man, what are you doing? Like, we're just trying to have Simon play some music, and he's calling these, like, crazy, but I guess we're changing.
00:00:23:01 - 00:00:37:04
Unknown
I bet I can guess what tune that is. What?
00:00:38:00 - 00:00:56:06
Unknown
I can see why you would think that, but it was even more difficult. Oh. More difficult. Yeah. All right, got it. One. Two. Three four. Five. Six. Seven.
00:00:56:08 - 00:01:13:09
Unknown
Now that's easy. That's a picnic I'm talking about, like, next level difficult. Wait. Okay. Giant steps. Level one. That giant substance seven. Yeah. Oh. For you. More difficult for me. I got you.
00:01:13:11 - 00:01:37:13
Unknown
That's it. I can't play this tune. Nope, nope. I don't know what I'm doing. Listen. No no no no, just forget it. No matter.
00:01:37:15 - 00:01:56:23
Unknown
I'm Adam, and I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the you'll hear podcast Music explored. Explored, brought to you today by Open Studio. Go to Open Studio jazz.com from your jazz lesson needs. And hey, Peter, maybe check out a free trial. Yes, we have a free trial. We have an awesome community and open studio. We do have an awesome don't be scared.
00:01:57:01 - 00:02:14:09
Unknown
We have some really great players. We have some beginners. Yeah, we're in Saint Louis. Yeah, we you know, we have a really fun, engaged and just joyful. We have we have joyful learners like, I'm so invigorated whenever I hang out, especially with my regular Wednesday live class. That's for the Open Studio Pro folks who are not all pros.
00:02:14:09 - 00:02:28:09
Unknown
Most of them are not pros. That's correct. But they're they're eager learners. They're joyful learners. They've gotten me so much more inspired when I go to my practice. Now, when I go to, you know, I'm studying German, I'm doing a little bit of German. So I've got my own little thing that I'm studying, and they really inspire me.
00:02:28:09 - 00:02:44:16
Unknown
So come on over there. As you said, we have a two week free trial and it's a very easy trial to exit if it's not your cup of tea. Yeah, I like some of these dozens and dozens of jazz piano courses, as well as courses on harmony, things like Pentatonix. You're training chaotic fun, you're you're training and then an entire community gospel course.
00:02:44:16 - 00:03:00:02
Unknown
I do a little gospel course. Do you know also where the number one online jazz community in the world on the, that's open studio jazz.com. Okay, Peter, today is a big one. And I know we say literally every time now, literally every iconic look at this I'm going to be iconic. This is a classic. This is a classic.
00:03:00:02 - 00:03:23:07
Unknown
This is, John Coltrane's 1959 classic Giant Steps. Now, notice I didn't say masterpiece. No, but you just said three things that make this iconic. What all in one sense. And you just kind of threw it out there like, John Coltrane true icon. Yeah, 1959 true iconic year for jazz releases and giant steps. Yeah, I mean, I think that that is like people musicians hear it and go, wah!
00:03:23:09 - 00:03:52:06
Unknown
But I think people listeners get it and they're like, it's thrilling. Yeah. It's like going to see, you know, an alley oop at basketball or something. Like it's just a fun, acrobatic, athletic situation. There's a lot of fire on this album that whether you're a musician or not. Yeah, people really flip out about the energy of this album and then musicians geek out because there are a lot of technical things happening in the compositions and the playing in this album that are next level and have honestly become a bit of a rite of passage for most young players.
00:03:52:06 - 00:04:05:00
Unknown
You got to go through Coltrane changes, man. You gotta learn how to play jazz steps. I remember I forget who it was, but someone told me when I was very young like, you're going to have to deal with giant steps at some point. Start now. Just go learn it and figure it out. You can run from it, but you can't hide.
00:04:05:01 - 00:04:22:06
Unknown
Cannot hide. Yeah. And it makes you a better musician. All the work that you can do to to get to be able to at least like have a, have a hold of it makes you a better musician for John Coltrane, this is a very interesting time in his career. Coltrane was born in hamlet, North Carolina. Right? Shout out North Carolina!
00:04:22:06 - 00:04:51:13
Unknown
Incredible community. September 23rd, 1926. And, you know, he started his career in the early 50s, playing with a bunch of different people. We got a little plastic, right. This is him with Dizzy Gillespie. Oh, with dizzy. That's right. Yeah. Check this out. He's traveling around, they jump. And they were like, wow. Yep. Completely wrong. We thought we were lost for not.
00:04:51:13 - 00:05:26:23
Unknown
This is a bourbon. You know what I'm talking about. Well, boogie woogie weight is trying to walk more people than I know. I got 151. Oh, sorry. Train. There's some train. Stuff happened. You never, ever, ever.
00:05:27:01 - 00:05:34:03
Unknown
Oh, no no no no no. Instead.
00:05:34:05 - 00:05:53:03
Unknown
So there's a 28 year old John Coltrane with Dizzy Gillespie. And then, you know, later, famously, we talked 25. Right. You said 1951, 1951. He was born in 1926. Yeah, yeah. You're right. So, so not a as young as I mean, a young Coltrane compared to, like, the earliest thing I think I've ever heard is several years before.
00:05:53:03 - 00:06:12:22
Unknown
Yeah, but it's interesting. A little bit of a late bloomer. Maybe not miles playing with bird when he's 17. Right. Oh, Clifford Brown. Right. Oh yeah. Yeah. In the late mid to late 50s. He then joined Miles Davis Jazz Band. Now we talking about 1959. But earlier than that 1957 cookin with the Miles Davis Quintet. We're going to get this.
00:06:13:00 - 00:06:20:06
Unknown
Ooh. And this is going to come into play a little bit later. This tuna.
00:06:20:08 - 00:06:36:11
Unknown
I see really young. And.
00:06:36:12 - 00:07:05:20
Unknown
I'm. One of those infamous prestige recordings cooking relaxing steaming sliding washing up after the dishes. There's so many to choose from. And so that's Trane in the mid 50s. He's also making his own albums at this point and on prestige. Right. And having some success. I believe this one was on Blue Note. Blue note. Oh. That blue true Blue train.
00:07:05:20 - 00:07:21:07
Unknown
Never heard of it.
00:07:21:09 - 00:07:25:20
Unknown
And.
00:07:29:11 - 00:07:35:16
Unknown
That influenced other.
00:07:35:18 - 00:07:49:23
Unknown
Sharp knife. Much? Underneath the knife. And.
00:07:50:22 - 00:08:19:04
Unknown
So this is Blues, the blue player. That's the year before giant steps happen and train is. He's also playing with monk during this time. And he's really making a name for himself. He's got such a distinctive sound during this time, too. He's developing the sheets of sound, sound that got him so famous. And in 1959 he releases what we're about to listen to, which is Giant Steps, and it's really interesting album.
00:08:19:04 - 00:08:36:07
Unknown
So he's also on another classic album from 1959, Miles Davis is Kind of Blue. Ever heard of it? Well, if you listen to those podcasts. Yes. Yeah. And we're going to talk week. We're going to we're going to ask a question. Is giant Steps better than kind of blue a little bit later than this episode which. Well, it's very close chronologically dig into.
00:08:36:07 - 00:09:03:09
Unknown
But they're kind of polar opposites. Peter Fire and ice over here. Yeah for sure. And it's really interesting to hear where train is artistically here versus where Miles is, who is definitely his, you know, bandleader and mentor on on the other side of his career. So this is the opening track to Giant Steps, and this is one of the tracks that is one of those Rite of Passage songs, because it uses that sort of three tonic system that we can maybe nerd out about a little bit.
00:09:03:09 - 00:09:18:14
Unknown
I don't wanna get in the weeds on it for our non nerd friends listening, but you can kind of hear that there's an interesting sound here where there doesn't seem to be a home key for very long. Even if you're not a musician, you can kind of hear this in like point eight seconds per. Yeah, you can hear that.
00:09:18:14 - 00:09:28:09
Unknown
It sounds unsettled. Yeah. Intentionally transitions on.
00:09:28:11 - 00:09:44:12
Unknown
One side and then.
00:09:44:14 - 00:09:53:11
Unknown
Sort of, you know.
00:09:53:13 - 00:10:01:03
Unknown
Feel. Hip hop. Skip.
00:10:01:05 - 00:10:06:21
Unknown
And beat and.
00:10:06:23 - 00:10:18:11
Unknown
Just fire you out of his all of the time.
00:10:18:12 - 00:10:32:04
Unknown
Oh, Taylor. He's.
00:10:32:06 - 00:10:38:06
Unknown
Come.
00:10:38:08 - 00:10:49:03
Unknown
Up in.
00:10:49:05 - 00:11:02:19
Unknown
Different.
00:11:02:21 - 00:11:11:13
Unknown
Way he played in.
00:11:11:15 - 00:11:15:15
Unknown
All.
00:11:15:17 - 00:11:20:11
Unknown
But.
00:11:20:13 - 00:11:26:18
Unknown
That and.
00:11:26:20 - 00:11:43:17
Unknown
The.
00:11:43:19 - 00:11:49:15
Unknown
Is there a more iconic solo in jazz? Maybe not.
00:11:49:17 - 00:11:57:18
Unknown
In it. Maybe. It's.
00:11:57:20 - 00:12:15:21
Unknown
An.
00:12:17:20 - 00:12:31:20
Unknown
Tommy Flanagan, piano here.
00:12:31:22 - 00:13:13:02
Unknown
Oh.
00:13:13:04 - 00:13:25:05
Unknown
Maybe. It.
00:13:25:07 - 00:13:34:21
Unknown
Was.
00:13:34:23 - 00:13:43:03
Unknown
Maybe we. I.
00:13:43:05 - 00:14:11:13
Unknown
Mean the pieces. When you're playing for. He's crushing. Yeah. And, man, he. And, I mean, there's there's so much to talk about with just the opening track. Nope. I know, yeah, we could. So you might have noticed a Peter and I singing along to every part of Trane solo, because I think most jazz musicians know the solo. Yeah.
00:14:11:13 - 00:14:34:16
Unknown
Inside and out. Yeah. There's many thousands of videos on YouTube of people playing it on their instruments, vocalists who can sing this solo like, perfectly. It's like a quintessential solo to learn as a jazz musician when you get to a certain level. Yeah. A high level. A little bit about the band you mentioned PC, that's Paul Chambers on the bass, and I think he misses one beat.
00:14:34:18 - 00:14:59:06
Unknown
I, he does not think he misses one. Well, he's Paul Chambers. He's one of the greatest bass players who's ever lived on piano. Tommy Flanagan, one of my favorite pianists from this era. He you might have heard like he had some struggles on this take of playing through Giant Steps. And that's because he did not have any prior rehearsal of Giant Steps before they got in here to the studio.
00:14:59:14 - 00:15:21:09
Unknown
Trane had actually done a rehearsal session with a different, trio. Right? That's right. Rehearsal session with, Cedar Walton and Lex Humphries. Oh, and there's, you can hear the, the outtakes of that in some of the, the reissued and, you know, Cedar Walton passes on a solo and he talks about it. He said, I just didn't feel comfortable.
00:15:21:09 - 00:15:36:00
Unknown
He's like, now I know it's hard. He's like as he's like, I was young. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have passed on it. I would have gave it a shot. But him and train were kind of working on it for a while, and Coltrane didn't love the results of that. So he hired this new rhythm section.
00:15:36:00 - 00:15:55:02
Unknown
Yeah, with Art Taylor on drums, Tiny Tommy Flanagan on piano, and Paul Chambers on the bass. And Tommy Flanagan, I think, does a pretty fine job of, like, taking a your first swing. Like a lot of great musicians work through giant steps for weeks, months, if not years. Yeah. Before they would even attempt to perform it. Yeah.
00:15:55:02 - 00:16:09:17
Unknown
And I mean, most importantly, we've all worked through it with John Coltrane and showing us the way that chord, he's hearing it for the first time. Yeah. And even with like, knowing and like studying, I mean, I remember I learned the solo kind of early on before I could really hear everything. So then I came back to it.
00:16:09:17 - 00:16:26:01
Unknown
I wrote it out my hand. Yeah. And I don't know that I ever nailed it. Every now and then later on, I saw the transcription. I was like, oh damn, if only I'd had this. But that process of going through it is instruction in terms of how to play all these changes. None of the other, players on the record had that because you're hearing it for the first time.
00:16:26:01 - 00:16:48:08
Unknown
Yeah, my hot take. This may be an unpopular one. Go or, or maybe inflammatory to some. No, I mean, it shouldn't be. Is that I think Tommy playing it is killing it on this. I agree, because he doesn't miss one chord change. Now, he's not playing like Trane, and, you know, he's not, but he's playing some lines over, which is really hard to do.
00:16:48:08 - 00:17:07:07
Unknown
Some beautiful mess. You shed it over this final years. Yeah. But but in spite of that. So he must have been reading this. I'm sure he was reading it. That at that tempo, it's very hard to, even when you know the tune to be able to not missing the he doesn't miss one change. So some might say he struggles, but I would say he's not struggling to play the form.
00:17:07:12 - 00:17:24:18
Unknown
He's just not playing all of his Tommy Flanagan stuff at this tempo over these hard ass changes. And I also think that it's kind of perfect what he plays because I mean perfect. What does that mean for what Trane played before and what he comes back in and plays it? You need a breather. You do, you know what I mean?
00:17:24:18 - 00:17:43:01
Unknown
If you've been, like, just ripping through like Coltrane was, it would be like, if everything is ripping Coltrane, then nothing's ripping Coltrane, right? So Tommy Flanagan like took it down a notch. But in terms of like his attenuation with the the tempo doesn't come down at all. Yeah. You know, he's hitting all of the changes. He's playing very relaxed.
00:17:43:01 - 00:17:56:00
Unknown
He's doing his Tommy stuff. I got no problem with anything. In fact, that's why I push back. And people that are like, he was like, he definitely wasn't. Never lost. Yeah, you can hear he was never lost. I've heard some young musicians say he gets lost when he's not didn't know what to do. It's like now he just kind of pulls back a little bit.
00:17:56:00 - 00:18:12:13
Unknown
He and subsequently made recordings of this later in his career that were absolutely killing. I couldn't imagine anybody going in there without rehearsal playing this any better than that. Any piano, any. That's I'm talking about Oscar Peterson. I'm talking about percent correct. Anybody any better than that? And then another thing this really highlights before we get to sort of the main event.
00:18:12:13 - 00:18:35:01
Unknown
But this rhythm section of PC in 80 right Paul Chambers and Art Taylor are a freight train of rhythm section saying, I love this rhythm section. So much of Paul Chambers and Art Taylor, they are a powerhouse. I mean, it's so powerful. We're gonna hear a little bit more of that later. But you know, the star of the show for the first track and the star of this whole album is the man himself is John Coltrane.
00:18:35:03 - 00:18:57:23
Unknown
It's it's mind blowing hot take you have there. I know new start John the Giant Steps is John Coltrane. This solo is mind blowing and and we can hear maybe a little bit of it without anything else around it. Yeah.
00:18:58:00 - 00:19:11:19
Unknown
The little.
00:19:11:21 - 00:19:14:04
Unknown
The.
00:19:14:06 - 00:19:21:05
Unknown
What a sound.
00:19:21:07 - 00:19:32:13
Unknown
Hey. Yeah. His rhythmic calibration was eight miles. The.
00:19:32:19 - 00:19:39:00
Unknown
When he goes through that stuff.
00:19:39:02 - 00:19:49:06
Unknown
He didn't. Pick up.
00:19:49:08 - 00:20:14:10
Unknown
So many. Like exploratory spirit in and, you know. And he repeats some of the lines. He never repeats anything exactly the same. Exactly. But over some of the same thing. Like, he definitely had stuff he played over this, but his craftsmanship like to construct a bigger line that you have to construct lines. They don't have to be as long as like he's or unusually long.
00:20:14:16 - 00:20:31:13
Unknown
But when you're stretching over this different kind of harmony, it's like you're going for a walk and there's like hot coals and there's warm and there's like you're having to navigate that but continue to walk. And he strings together these little pieces of lines to make a whole line. And you really hear it there with the isolated saxophone, in a way.
00:20:31:13 - 00:20:47:05
Unknown
And then, of course, his phrasing, his rhythmic clarity, the swing. And then he's even got some of the blues feel that's right in there somehow, but especially because of that E-flat and, you know, great stuff. So we talked a little bit about me like about some of the technical things, just to nerd out for a bit on what's going on here.
00:20:47:05 - 00:21:08:14
Unknown
So you're going through three different key centers. So usually a song is in one key, and this song goes rapidly through the key of B, key of G and the key of E flat. And those are all exactly a major third apart from E flat down would be back to be. So it's this kind of symmetrical thing that happens in the song, and it's over the bar lines on top of that, making it even more difficult.
00:21:08:14 - 00:21:27:15
Unknown
It's very difficult to do and execute because you're you're as a musician, you're used to playing in a key and using all of the devices in a key. This rapidly key key, key, Kiki key, keep all keep. No, no. But it just happened so dang fast that it really takes some mental gymnastics and some athletics to be able to do it.
00:21:27:20 - 00:21:44:17
Unknown
This was the first question for you when you say going through, are you counting like B major and then D7 over D7 is is the new key. And then G major you kind of at is the same key. So for four beats you're in the key of G. That's right. So five one right. Right. And then A251 in the second half.
00:21:44:19 - 00:22:07:19
Unknown
Right. So there's that. But then adding to the level of of difficulty the degree of difficulty even more is that. So that's every four beats. What's like two beats one two. It's like 1212341234. So everything's offset. That's right. But also the actual chord is changing every two beats on top of that, except for like only what three places are four places where you're sitting for a whole block is two five.
00:22:07:19 - 00:22:24:16
Unknown
And the second half the tune is still super hard. Yeah, but because the first half is so is so crazy hard that you just like, but just for people out there that like, can you stop talking in Latin and please speak in Spanglish or something? I understand, what that means is dee dee dee doo dee.
00:22:24:16 - 00:22:55:10
Unknown
Like almost every note on the melody b d so that's actually fast. Ruby. Dee dee doo dee with 123456789 ten 1112. We're 12 chords in yeah already. That's how quick they're changing the whole harmonic tonal center. That's right 26 courts very very rapidly. That's how many. And then but this isn't like the first time that this, this, sort of augmented triad harmony has happened.
00:22:55:10 - 00:23:11:01
Unknown
Right? Plenty of classical composers use it before this. And then famously, the bridge of Have You Met Miss Jones does the exact same move as Giant steps to the.
00:23:11:03 - 00:23:34:21
Unknown
Have you met Miss Jones? Yes, I have, someone said we're getting to the amount for sure. Okay. We got since she was just Miss Jones to me. So this is the key of E-flat that we're in. And most tunes would stay around this and maybe go to the four chord in the bridge. She has the relative minor maybe, who understands.
00:23:35:03 - 00:23:56:11
Unknown
And most musicians can, like, hang in a key. But this special tune. Have you met Miss Jones? We're going to go to a slide here all at once. I lost my breath. Two five to your left. Not a major third to five to see, How I made you once back up on the earth and skull. Yeah, but this is going at this tempo.
00:23:56:11 - 00:24:22:06
Unknown
I know, super easy. Whereas train does all of that within five seconds. Done. Yeah, that was it. That's the album. Like you're Frank Sinatra on this giant steps. So for me, a big old stairs in a Vegas. Okay. Next up is, you know, the John Coltrane can play the blues. Did you? Yes, I I've said it two times.
00:24:22:09 - 00:24:38:16
Unknown
I mean, I think he's just. You heard him walk in the bar in 1951. It doesn't surprise me. I think he's a master. Tell the people how much walk in the bar means. Oh, that's when the saxophone players used to, for promotional and marketing sake, before there was TikTok available to them, they had to physically do a TikTok routine and get up on the bar.
00:24:38:19 - 00:25:02:03
Unknown
Right? Hang on and like, walk up and walk up. They sold out. Yeah, yeah, walk the ball. So the next track, the second track of Giant Steps, is Cousin Mary to the Beautiful Blues. Ooh. Oh, those sharp numbers I love. These are not same chord that used extensively in Blue Train. Fun fact, baby, this is my desert island track.
00:25:02:05 - 00:25:11:12
Unknown
I called it early. Sorry, I got it right there. You feel feels good.
00:25:11:14 - 00:25:17:19
Unknown
And then.
00:25:17:21 - 00:25:28:08
Unknown
Up to nine. Be like, hey.
00:25:28:10 - 00:25:37:10
Unknown
Up up up now.
00:25:37:12 - 00:25:54:12
Unknown
Ten. Oh, man. I'm not a man. I was swinging there after to play like he.
00:25:54:14 - 00:26:07:17
Unknown
How much fun would it be to play a blues with our tail chambers? Gonna be amazing.
00:26:07:19 - 00:26:17:04
Unknown
I mean, I'm not a.
00:26:17:06 - 00:26:26:00
Unknown
And at the end of the day, I think. Hey, man.
00:26:26:02 - 00:26:28:11
Unknown
I.
00:26:28:13 - 00:26:33:08
Unknown
Am not.
00:26:33:10 - 00:26:41:21
Unknown
A. I don't, I.
00:26:41:23 - 00:26:50:18
Unknown
Ain't.
00:26:51:21 - 00:27:02:05
Unknown
And then.
00:27:02:07 - 00:27:16:12
Unknown
I like Manhattan, and then I.
00:27:16:14 - 00:27:26:15
Unknown
Stack thirds. Much? Any other.
00:27:26:17 - 00:27:55:00
Unknown
Day they are, ends on the night. Started on the night.
00:27:57:21 - 00:28:17:20
Unknown
Oh.
00:28:18:04 - 00:28:23:06
Unknown
So great.
00:28:23:08 - 00:28:36:14
Unknown
Oh.
00:28:36:16 - 00:28:44:12
Unknown
He's just, like, seven thing. He's. I like a lot of, like, tenor comping or anything.
00:28:44:14 - 00:28:55:16
Unknown
Really opens up the range for.
00:28:55:18 - 00:29:18:06
Unknown
People to be. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You see?
00:29:34:23 - 00:29:52:06
Unknown
Cousin Mary, go back up to that. Nice. The second track there. What? It's this. Every track on this is played now as a standard. Pretty much. And you can get a strong lineup on this. And it's a strong lineup. And I would think like let's see. One, two three, four of these tracks are I would say all time.
00:29:52:08 - 00:30:17:23
Unknown
You can call it any jam session standard. And they're all like jazz standards, right? There's no is there. No. They're all originals. They're all originals. And real really become jazz snares, which is very rare during this period. Yeah. You know, to have but I, you know, I was like hearing that solo. This is very, foreshadowing of the great Coltrane record with his wonderful quartet, which had not yet form.
00:30:18:00 - 00:30:39:02
Unknown
It was probably only a year away. Yeah. Elvin Jones, Jimmy Garrison, McCoy Tyner. Yeah, yeah, cosmic Coltrane plays the blues. That track, Cousin Mary could have been on. Like, compositionally, obviously it's a blues which fits good. Really could have been on there the way the train solos. I think that he was such a great, the blues and the bebop like, such a master of that.
00:30:39:02 - 00:30:59:22
Unknown
He had his own style, but it's so deeply rooted in those. And the walking the bar thing, which is coming out of the blues saxophone tradition, such a great bebop player. I mean, you hear that on some of those wonderful lines on Giant Steps for sure to be debated straight bebop. Yeah, it's just stretched out over this incredible harmonic exploration.
00:31:00:00 - 00:31:20:19
Unknown
Well, our next tune, Peter, is a very famous contra effect. You know what that is? Yes. Against the fact. No. It's, fake news. Nope. No, it's not another another guest. Okay. It's when you put a melody over a set of chord changes, that's from another composition. That's right. You take another compositions for us evading the publishing laws 100%.
00:31:20:21 - 00:31:39:23
Unknown
But in this case, this is actually more than a contra fact. This is a re harmonization contra effect. So, remember tune up from cookin. Yeah. Miles Davis that we played earlier.
00:31:40:01 - 00:31:45:11
Unknown
This.
00:31:45:12 - 00:31:49:12
Unknown
Summer. Very short form.
00:31:49:14 - 00:32:13:09
Unknown
116 bar tune. Coltrane took those chord changes, and he put what's now called Coltrane Changes on top of it again, moving through what is a fairly standard cadence. Yeah, of tune up in a couple different keys. But now putting this like three key cadence in it and he called it countdown. Yeah. And it is similar root movement.
00:32:13:12 - 00:32:33:23
Unknown
Chordal movements are giant steps. And it's even and unbelievably it's even a little bit more difficult. And I think it's a little faster too is it is a lot faster. The track is only two minutes and 25 seconds. And this is really an it's like 75 courses. Yeah, it's really an Art Taylor showcase too. But this is there's so much to talk about with just this two minutes 25 seconds.
00:32:33:23 - 00:32:56:17
Unknown
Let's check out countdown here.
00:32:56:19 - 00:33:10:12
Unknown
Who do. Oh my.
00:33:10:14 - 00:33:28:21
Unknown
Top. Yeah, that was one quarter. Yeah. It's like 10s per chorus or something. Oh.
00:33:28:23 - 00:33:44:00
Unknown
About 360. 360 beats per minute. Ooh!
00:33:44:02 - 00:33:56:17
Unknown
And.
00:33:56:19 - 00:34:04:15
Unknown
And.
00:34:04:17 - 00:34:16:02
Unknown
And.
00:34:16:04 - 00:34:26:02
Unknown
That's that bass drum season. That's a well-tuned, well recorded bass drum.
00:34:26:04 - 00:34:30:02
Unknown
Okay.
00:34:30:04 - 00:35:01:04
Unknown
And, not just one chorus, right? Oh, you play oh two. I end up getting got a major third major third major, third major major third. And that. Nuts. It's. No, it's just one chorus plus the first phrase. Right, right, right. Yeah. It's like a chorus and a man. What a great arrangement, too. I. You know what's interesting?
00:35:01:04 - 00:35:13:02
Unknown
I just see we have that both for our weight. We don't want to give it all. Thank you. Okay. Oh, well, if you want to hear the most beautiful thing you've ever heard. Yes, sir.
00:35:13:04 - 00:35:35:22
Unknown
It sounds like what I just heard. We'll just wait for it. Our Taylor 1818. Our Taylor. Yeah. I just bring the once.
00:35:36:00 - 00:36:05:22
Unknown
Oh, where's Johnny Coltrane gone? Listen to that. Precision. Hi. So what, you're here teaching? That's called the higher the, one to suck cymbal. And then I think that's the ride. So isn't it unbelievable. And then, of course, Jack's snare drum, but playing with the bass drum, but, snapper snare bass, snare bass.
00:36:06:00 - 00:36:17:03
Unknown
You have to be limber of limber limbers of limber limbs.
00:36:17:05 - 00:36:24:04
Unknown
And the tempo so steady to click track. I'm sure.
00:36:24:06 - 00:36:30:06
Unknown
15.
00:36:30:08 - 00:36:50:14
Unknown
What is going on? Hazing. It's incredible. It's just. Oh, yeah. Drummer. It's just amazing to be to do do you can do things including moving up.
00:36:50:16 - 00:37:13:21
Unknown
And then highest one, two and four. Right. Yeah. 1234123. Isn't that something, man? That's the dance. That's our Taylor. Taylor. Yeah. So I got a chance to play one time with our Taylor. And it was one of the just 1 to 1 of the sweetest situations. Man, what a what a master. And I forgot, like, how. I mean, we always think of, like, Philly Joe Jones from this period of being just like the master technician.
00:37:14:02 - 00:37:36:08
Unknown
Our Blakey, of course, had his own thing. Jimmy Cobb just being like the whole package. But I mean, Art Taylor for just like, ride cymbal. I mean, but everything that that I love that beat the whole thing through there is just pure mastery. But also on the booby down, all of it. Oh, next up, we've got spiral mean.
00:37:36:10 - 00:37:58:04
Unknown
This is always the outlier to me. This track I like it, I love it. It's like the the least known least played right in. I don't think I've, I have I've had to have played it before but I don't know. Would you say it's the least played out? Probably. Yeah. I bet it's fun to play though. Yeah.
00:37:59:06 - 00:38:03:08
Unknown
Yeah. This is funny.
00:38:03:10 - 00:38:08:23
Unknown
Formidable realm. Second.
00:38:09:01 - 00:38:14:23
Unknown
Is really interesting. Constructed.
00:38:15:01 - 00:38:23:12
Unknown
Meaning?
00:38:23:13 - 00:38:31:15
Unknown
I.
00:38:31:17 - 00:39:07:18
Unknown
Yeah. Beautiful tune. Probably. Chords. Yeah. Keeping that form through the whole thing. Next up is, say, the song flutes, and this is named after, Coltrane's adopted daughter, Sarah. And I think this one is maybe the most underrated track on the whole album. Oh, yeah.
00:39:13:21 - 00:39:21:23
Unknown
Oh. Anyway.
00:39:22:01 - 00:39:42:13
Unknown
I'll just add really beautiful, simple syncopation. One, two to get, Oh, yeah. Single line. Great. Let me.
00:39:42:15 - 00:39:48:03
Unknown
Just swing the activated.
00:39:48:05 - 00:40:05:07
Unknown
Straight to the truth. Straight to the truth. That's why I think that one, in a way, is the most approachable. Well, obviously, we're going to get to a couple more. Maybe we could quibble on that, but in a lot of ways, I think this is not the most popular song on here by, say, song flute, I think is the most approachable.
00:40:05:07 - 00:40:32:02
Unknown
Just like straight up swing the logic, like it's such a great tune with just boop bat can't okay hits. Yeah, yeah, fun hits like really interesting fun harmony blues sensibilities to it. It's great. Next up, this is an iconic track. This is another certainly standard at this point. In a lot of folks repertoire, this is the most beautiful, ballad, I think, of this era and only ballad on the record.
00:40:32:02 - 00:40:56:22
Unknown
Right? Yeah. This is Naima, named after Coltrane's first wife. While Nita, Naima Grubbs and this is this is kind of a precursor to what's about to happen, because, yeah, you know, eventually Coltrane feels like all of these slick harmonic movements are a dead end, right? Or a means to an end or means to an end. He's not finding artistic meat in it like he used to write.
00:40:56:22 - 00:41:17:13
Unknown
And he moves on to, you know, things like my favorite things, modal music. Yeah. Which would lead to things like Crescent and Love Supreme. And then he moves in from there to very, very free. Yeah. Outside music, the kind of tension. Yeah. Three. There's three. Maybe you could say four arrows to trains. Yeah. Cory, counting the walk the bar era.
00:41:17:14 - 00:41:35:13
Unknown
That was an alert. I mean, maybe it's the first era, but this is Naima, and this is more on a modal front now. And this is also, by the way, it happened at a different session. This happened. Everything we've heard so far happened, in May 1959. This happened in December 1959, really close to when the album was released.
00:41:35:13 - 00:41:52:07
Unknown
And this is with Miles Davis's rhythm section still Paul Chambers on the bass. Now we've got Wynton Kelly on the piano, Jimmy Cobb on the drums. This is Naima, who?
00:41:52:09 - 00:42:02:17
Unknown
Really?
00:42:02:19 - 00:42:07:23
Unknown
You.
00:42:08:00 - 00:42:47:17
Unknown
Hear? This.
00:42:47:19 - 00:42:57:21
Unknown
Last day. Who?
00:42:57:23 - 00:43:25:21
Unknown
Throws.
00:43:25:23 - 00:43:55:05
Unknown
And when Kelly's touch on that. Simple, simple sound.
00:43:55:06 - 00:44:32:02
Unknown
Oh, I love this part.
00:44:32:04 - 00:44:59:22
Unknown
To the bridge, man. So, like. Understated. Like no one's ever going to be like. That's the greatest Wynton Kelly solo ever, you know? But it's so it's so perfect for what's perfect. Yeah. And I think PC like, kind of the, as usual, the unsung hero in terms of first of all, playing every, you know, the whole session. But those pedal points being beep beep beep like is basically the, the pedal points over the A section.
00:44:59:22 - 00:45:21:23
Unknown
They kind of resolve. But it's like the shifting harmony on top of that cars. And a pedal point is just something that's happening in jazz. Normally the pedal point would be the bass player or like the left hand of the piano. But it could be like any kind of lower instrument on the lower registers continuing to play a certain, harmony or even just a certain note.
00:45:21:23 - 00:45:44:14
Unknown
In this case, I think it's E-flat. It starts on and then you have shifting harmony on top of that pedal point. Bing bing bing bing bing boom. That continues like to give different feelings. It's sort of like optimistic and, you know, hopeful B2B. Then it goes to that minor 11 where it's kind of but the pedal point stays the same, and that's PC holding it down.
00:45:44:20 - 00:46:09:18
Unknown
So it's jibber dooby, and then it resolves to a major kind of, but it's still got that pedal point. He doesn't always fully resolve it. So it's such an interesting, interesting way to write where you're using. Yes, beautiful melody, as always, but you're using this harmony to play with the listener's emotions and go in and out of like a little bit more aggressive to just beautiful, to love, to kind of, oh, is it going to work out, tell a story with the harmony for real, with the harmony.
00:46:09:23 - 00:46:26:18
Unknown
The final track is another jam session standard. In fact, that might be the most played of all of these because I said, let's jam session minor blues go Mr. PC. That's right, Paul Jam.
00:46:26:20 - 00:46:31:09
Unknown
Up!
00:46:39:23 - 00:46:50:04
Unknown
Give me the b b b b. Beautiful.
00:46:50:06 - 00:47:04:23
Unknown
So. Yeah, c minor blues. Very low key kind of bebop. Yes. You might have C minor, but very bebop. F very strong start. Hard driving. Major seven six. Kind of thing.
00:47:05:01 - 00:47:28:23
Unknown
But using that train phrasing and again the rhythm section here just tippy I can listen I can honestly listen to the whole thing with just bass and drums. Man. This is such a, consistent record. Totally. Oh my gosh. Because even, like, when it goes to the ballad and it's a different, rhythm while still Paul Chambers, but different pianos, different drummer, like the intensity of the beat.
00:47:29:01 - 00:47:46:05
Unknown
Like here, it's a lot of, you know, ding ding ding ding ding or like just like ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding, you know, different tempos, but but there's that same intense intensity because of that pedal point. The PC, PC is the rock as our all great bass players for sure. But this record like, that's that consistency.
00:47:46:07 - 00:48:02:16
Unknown
Obviously. Train's phrasing, I mean, swinging his ass off, doing the bluesy and bebop stuff, but I think the rhythm section just really gives that accountability and that consistency. All the way through. Let's get to some categories. Peter. Yeah. What you does around track Cousin Mary oh, that's a good way to I love the way it starts. Kind of.
00:48:02:17 - 00:48:19:07
Unknown
You're not sure if that's like one, two three 4 or 1 two, but be that like it always fit and then it resolves itself once they start swinging it. That is I think soloing is just. But you know, for this record, I would be so fine. This is kind of low key. I'm a little surprised. I'm not tearing up.
00:48:19:07 - 00:48:34:12
Unknown
I'm just scratching my eyes a little bit. What what are you surprised about? I remember when I was saying off I was kid. You didn't like this record? No, I didn't hold. I sorry, I didn't say I didn't like it, but I was always like, this is not my favorite train wreck. Yeah, that's what I said. And I would say it's still maybe isn't, but this is sort of a desert island record.
00:48:34:12 - 00:48:51:15
Unknown
Like if I was stuck on it, I would be okay with it. As much as people talk about giant steps, most musicians I know, this isn't their favorite train record. There's something he goes. He eventually goes so deep. Yes, you know what I mean? That is just like, oh my gosh, it's this is like, feels like the start of something or the maybe the middle of something interesting happen.
00:48:51:15 - 00:49:07:09
Unknown
This is a great record. That's great. I'm I'm reinvigorated about this. My desert island track is countdown. Okay? I love playing it. It's been in my repertoire for years. I spent a long time working on it. Such a flash and it's like it's countdown. I everyone else scared of it, I love it, yeah, playing with swimming with sharks.
00:49:07:09 - 00:49:25:09
Unknown
Love it. What about apex moment? What's your apex moment? Well, this year I'm looking at yours, and I realize mine's kind of. Leading up to mine is countdown. Is everything our Taylor and Trainor playing. And then Tommy Flanagan comes in. Right. And like, the moment, everything that happens right up until when PC comes in, that's your apex.
00:49:25:09 - 00:49:52:05
Unknown
Yes. My apex is when PC comes in. Yeah. Well, I mean, I kind of list everything before that is what sets it up right? And the way it's layered in. Oh. And the bass drums and the dropping the bombs, the apex, it's. Yeah, but it doesn't happen. But this is pretty apex. But no, it's almost like it's like, wouldn't it be like, yeah.
00:49:52:07 - 00:50:15:13
Unknown
No, no, but it's already there because check it out. So check it out. Everything. It's like yeah. Because now you got the bom bom bom. But think about it. You got better. And then train as soon as PC comes in is like done on on. So he kind of in terms of like the intensity of the phrasing or the delineation of the phrasing, he actually pulls back a little bit because he's go into the long notes melodies.
00:50:15:13 - 00:50:37:17
Unknown
King buddy. Yeah, Rosa, I mean, the whole thing is like, it's so short, that track, it's that's just a great. Yeah, the whole thing is the apex moment. You both win. Bespoke Spotify playlist. What do you got? Better Shed boy, better shed boy. Yeah, I think that was mine. Was just hard ass jazz. Why is it got to be hard?
00:50:37:17 - 00:50:57:18
Unknown
I asked jazz better. Shed boy is better, though. Yeah. Up next, where do you go? Boy, boy, boy y e better shed boy. Up next, I've got, Cole, I want do I want to rethink this now? I don't think so. I got Cole train ballads. So it's a couple of years later, two, three years later, because I'm like, after all this, especially countdown.
00:50:57:18 - 00:51:10:13
Unknown
Like, I need to just sit back and hear train playing ballads, you know what I mean? Like that in terms of, like, the pacing, if you're gonna listen to an hour and a half straight of train, I think that would be a good I mean, you could go to something else, but, I have training in bass. Great.
00:51:10:13 - 00:51:28:06
Unknown
When Kelly. That's a great John Coltrane in his. Yeah. Unbelievable. I mean, let's be honest, Kobe. What? In terms of what I'm talking about? Intensity. Yeah. Same year. Well, same different year. But yes, this was 1960. That was 1959. Okay. We just left for a second look. Look at the color of of my good friend. Are you okay?
00:51:28:09 - 00:51:47:03
Unknown
So I need to wave you okay. We just discovered that this record. Actually, Adam thinks this is a big deal. I don't think this is a big deal. I just want to be accurate. This record came out in 1960. Can we just move on now? Okay. January 1960. Yeah, that's not a big deal. Right. So we're saying that, you know, kind of blue came out in 1959.
00:51:47:03 - 00:52:03:16
Unknown
All these other records. This was all stuff that was I always think it's more important when it's recorded 1959. That's when all this stuff was recorded. Right? This was all recorded in 1959, but it didn't get released to the public to 1968. We've been saying it's a 1959 album. This is not true. But that's what this is going to go right into our quibble bits.
00:52:04:06 - 00:52:18:12
Unknown
I have a quibble bit that you think it's a big deal that this record came out in January. Well, no, I, I think it's a big deal that that I did all this research and got the date of the album release. Right. I did a ton of reasons leave in the comments, because we always think that this stuff is less important or more.
00:52:18:12 - 00:52:33:11
Unknown
In fact, we want to know for you guys, is that like a thing? If it's I would really rather we just correct the record on this. We just think the records corrected. We just corrected it. What do you got for quibble bits that we're leaving that in? I have a quibble about that. It's even an issue. There you go.
00:52:33:14 - 00:52:55:21
Unknown
Oh no, I did say my only quibble and I'll listen to this record again. It reminded me. And tell me if you think this is fair or not, is that there's one track with a different well, it's not even it's a different pianist in different drummer. So it's not even a full, different rhythm section. But I'm always like the consistency of a record with one band and the sound and it, like the piano does sound different on.
00:52:55:21 - 00:53:10:02
Unknown
That is a little thing, and I don't even know if I noticed it the first time, but as soon as I knew that, I couldn't unhear that. And so is that valid? Is that a valid quibble? Yes, it is valid, but I like the track that they're on. Right. You know what I mean. Recorded in 1959 for the record.
00:53:10:02 - 00:53:30:22
Unknown
Correct. It's an abomination. Now I have a couple of it too. I see red when I listen to this. Oh, like a little synesthesia. I honestly see like a countdown. You love that. I see that even on countdown, I have not mastered countdown. But I see red. Yeah. Anybody else see red in that? It gets me kind of fired up in a way that it's not, like enjoyable, right?
00:53:30:22 - 00:53:51:06
Unknown
You know, it could be a little bit of, angst. No, not angst that that's more like depressive. I'm talking more like angry, anxious, passive or anxious. Maybe anxious or maybe like, with lots of zeal. Like, I want to go to work. I want to practice. I want to like it's. Which is good. It's nice. Yeah, but it's like I say, I like a tiger's eye.
00:53:51:08 - 00:54:16:22
Unknown
The older I get, the less I want to put on this album, and the more I want to put on ballads. That's what I'm saying. I could I could see that. I would say it's interesting you say that the and the, what's the word you just used anxiety or anxiety? Anxious or being anxious. Like, that's kind of how Tommy Flanagan navigated playing over giant steps was like with no anxiousness, no angst, no like, no like he he lowered the bar, like he lowered the stakes.
00:54:16:22 - 00:54:30:18
Unknown
He didn't lower the bar at all. Actually, the way that he was playing, he lowered the stakes. And that's such a beautiful way of doing it. Like he almost like that was almost like a deep breath kind of solo. He's just like. I mean, could you imagine playing over that? Never rehearsed it. And you got to play after Coltrane just nailed the thing.
00:54:30:18 - 00:54:52:06
Unknown
Seven choruses in a row, you know? Yeah. 1959. Amazing stuff happened that year. The monitor. Yeah, but this was 1969. It was 1959. It was recorded. So the bomb hitter. Okay, I've got a we're gonna have to go with five. No classic five, because I can't figure out if it's 1 or 10. The usual. Like it's not a snobby record because it's John Coltrane's giant step.
00:54:52:06 - 00:55:10:02
Unknown
It's one of the most popular jazz records of all time. It's on every top ten list. Like you can't escape it. But it's literally a musical exercise for people. Yes, but it's wildly popular, wildly well-known. Unless you're saying you think it's just like a facade, the people. It's like one of those things like, I love Shakespeare, but I never actually read it.
00:55:10:06 - 00:55:32:03
Unknown
Everybody knows this record. Everybody and the mama, it might be a little bit of like, oh yeah, no, no, I, I read Kierkegaard like it's a little bit of that for people, I think. Oh yeah, I like Giant Steps. Yeah, that makes a vibe. Right? I think it's kind of ten. But is it better than Kobe? Bad. I just marked out my thing I had no I'm saying maybe I got I'm going with the maybe going too strong.
00:55:32:05 - 00:55:53:09
Unknown
It's no it's not okay. Well yeah it had a yes or no in so many weeks. No. We talking book I said yes, okay. Rudy, what did I say for voodoo? Maybe you said it's good, man. Me, I you know what? I'm not a binary kind of guy. Bad maybe. Accouterments. I'm going 7.5. I'm going seven.
00:55:53:12 - 00:56:13:12
Unknown
Okay. Hey, leave us a comment. Here's a, review on Apple Podcasts. If you're listening to this on your podcast, leave us a rating and review this is from 80. This is called fantastic with the fan in parentheses. This is by far my favorite music podcast. It's always fascinating to listen to musicians talk about music. Peter and Adam are obviously great musicians.
00:56:13:17 - 00:56:40:17
Unknown
You'll hear it pun intended, in the always fantastic intro and outro jams. I learned something new about albums I have loved. Every time you discuss one, I have two requests. Can you please discuss the great Aretha Franklin's Young, Gifted and Black? Yes, yes. We take requests and a playlist of your outro jams. So that playlist is our new Open Studio Music YouTube channel with a separate bespoke channel, a separate bespoke channel, and there's an album coming out that's going to be on Spotify or Apple Music.
00:56:40:18 - 00:57:02:07
Unknown
A lot of our hard copy LP, but great call on the young, Gifted and Black, one of my favorite albums. I was just thinking about Aretha Franklin. Like, how does one other record All Keepers? There's two other record. Yeah, well, that was kind of we got to do amazing young, gifted, a Black Amazing Race. But I've got a third one that's a little bit of a dark horse, which is I'm gonna say, all right, let's just say it's from the 2000.
00:57:02:09 - 00:58:24:11
Unknown
Believe it or not. So next time you'll hear. From.
00:58:24:12 - 01:01:20:06
Unknown
The.
