00:00:00:00 - 00:00:23:03
Unknown
I'm an menace and I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It podcast. Music explored. Explored, brought to you today by Open Studio. Go to Open studio jazz.com for all your jazz lesson needs. Absolu more. What's up with the some friends to start a little bit of skin blue already. Yeah you know how are you doing?
00:00:23:03 - 00:00:36:07
Unknown
Pretty good man. How you doing, man? Good. I'm excited about today's episode. Do you know what we're doing? Or do you just roll up in here and look at your nose at the last minute? I've been looking forward to this one. This is a little top, a little tower of power. I was weaned on some tower about. Where are you?
00:00:36:10 - 00:00:52:02
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you think you're an expert on it? No, I wouldn't say that. Why do we need an expert on it? I think we may. I mean, this is great. This is actually the Tower of Power. We're focusing on their self-titled album, which was not their first album, but this is Tower of Power. Tower of power.
00:00:52:03 - 00:01:11:03
Unknown
This is when they really hit their stride. The self-titled 1973. Yeah. Tower power. Yeah. But I do think we need to bring in some reinforcements. Something I just, I mean, you're great. I'm pretty good. Something a little bit stronger, I don't know. Okay. Somebody that's stronger, maybe. Like, how much are you mentioned currently? I'm doing better, but I got a little shoulder in a while.
00:01:11:05 - 00:01:26:08
Unknown
Yeah. Is there a a bench limit for this? Some kind of minimum. Well, we just need somebody stronger. I don't know if you're familiar with the podcast. Strong Songs. I love that show. There's a gentleman out of the West Coast, a little bit north of Tower of Power. About, I don't know, six 700 miles by the name of Kirk Hamilton.
00:01:26:08 - 00:01:45:20
Unknown
Yeah. Can we get him on the line? Can we bring him into the pod? Yeah. That's not Kirk. That wasn't a forced intro. What's up? Kirk, I'm so happy to be here. Hello. And so excited to talk about Tower of Power with both of you. Yeah. Well I thought, you know, let's start off by just maybe telling our own stories with tower power because I mentioned that I was weaned on him.
00:01:45:20 - 00:02:09:18
Unknown
So my dad. Huge Tower of Power fan, shout, shout out to my Uncle Joe. Actually, he's my cousin, but he's he's about my mom. My dad's age is Uncle Joe Barry's aunt Linda. No, he's not. We call them. We call them Joey. Joe. Okay. And he was a huge Tower of Power fan, and when I was a kid would, like, send me Tower of Power CDs and make me mix tapes.
00:02:09:18 - 00:02:34:06
Unknown
And so I really grew up with this stuff. Kirk, what's your, relationship with top? Like? You know, it's interesting. I didn't grow up listening to them. I grew up listening to James Brown. We were kind of a James Brown household, so I was listening to the band that inspired Tower of Power, but I didn't really listen to them until school, when a group of friends headed up by my my friend Russ Kleiner, an amazing drummer who was a big Dave Garibaldi fan.
00:02:34:06 - 00:02:53:18
Unknown
It's always the drummers. Yeah. They put together a, Tower of Power ensemble. This was at the University of Miami, right around the turn of the millennium. And I never played any of this stuff. But we got all the charts. We put together a killing band and had a great time. And ever since then, you know, I learned so much of the music and and became a huge fan of the band.
00:02:53:18 - 00:03:12:09
Unknown
And let me say, I know we're getting going. We're talking about Tower of Power. I'm very excited to be here. I love this show. This is like a real honor to be here. And Peter, I got to say, man, as a saxophone player who came up in the 90s, Joshua Redman, a very important player to me. And, you played on a couple of my favorite records of all time, man.
00:03:12:09 - 00:03:26:13
Unknown
The spirit of the moment that's on the list blew my mind when I was in high school. That is on our list. We've had many requests to do a show on the spur of the moment. Yeah, man. Do an episode on cat battles. I still appoint people to that tune. That small group arrangement is like a very clever small group arrangement.
00:03:26:13 - 00:03:40:23
Unknown
So I just want to say it is a real honor to be here. I love the show. I love both of y'all. And this is this is going to be super fun. But anyways, yes, that is my that is my story with time. Well, likewise. Thank you. Likewise, Kirk. Yeah. Strong Songs is an amazing show and we're big fans here.
00:03:41:01 - 00:03:57:08
Unknown
Peter, what about you? What's your tarot power? You know what? I did not grow up. Well, I, I definitely heard it because, some, like, I grew up listening to, you know, a lot of stuff on the radio and, like, out in the vacant lot by the house and, like, with a lot of older. Great. What?
00:03:57:11 - 00:04:12:12
Unknown
Yeah, there's a vacant lot. I never told you about that. What? We're not going to bore. Yeah, there was a vacant lot across. You know, that sounds super interesting. What are you talking about? You know, just like people bring it out the boombox and stuff, but mostly on the radio. And so this was a little bit early. I mean, I guess some later tower power.
00:04:12:14 - 00:04:30:04
Unknown
But I wasn't super aware of them until a gentleman named Maurice Carnes. Oh, yeah. Friend of a friend of ours, one of the great drummers out of Saint Louis would always be tall. Tower of power, you gotta check out. I was like, what? Yeah. And I went back and saw. I recognize it, and it's so it's something like, I feel like I know so much better James Brown as well.
00:04:30:06 - 00:04:48:15
Unknown
Yeah. So I'm really this was excited for me to kind of dig into this and, and I'll kind of be the be although I may be the oldest of the three of us, I'll be the junior member. I'll be the little baby as I did you guys wean me into, the top, lifestyle. So let's maybe kick it off with the opening track.
00:04:48:17 - 00:05:12:13
Unknown
What is hip? This is got to be up there. Yeah. One of the great opening tracks of the 70s. Yes. Right. Yeah. It's a very bold beginning, for sure. Very bold beginning. Driving 16th notes. Here it is. What is hip hop?
00:05:12:15 - 00:05:20:10
Unknown
Back. Like it?
00:05:20:12 - 00:05:50:13
Unknown
Made me forget about your trick. Back up is don't into your back. But you ain't just. It's like this. You watch, you started to, like on and go spend big bucks a pop your wardrobe. But somehow you don't. There's much more to what is now. Oh, tell me, tell me you make me so. Yeah. So I can just get you really the person to every song you want to hear this trumpet.
00:05:50:15 - 00:05:56:13
Unknown
Maybe you to hear what is.
00:05:56:15 - 00:06:10:08
Unknown
A little fake modulation. Who?
00:06:10:10 - 00:06:35:14
Unknown
Gets you became a part of the new breed. Then smoking only the best leaves. Hanging up on the so called the beats and being seen in all of. I'm pretty sure you've seen with just the right face and we should be satisfied. It's gonna take right by what is. Yeah. Tell me, tell me you think you know what it's.
00:06:35:15 - 00:06:50:02
Unknown
If you really hear the person in the song you want to hear clip, maybe you better know the.
00:06:50:04 - 00:07:27:05
Unknown
Every time Dave goes to the bell. Yeah. How about this for Phil is who? I saw your picture. Oh, the damn cricket drum sound to us. What is this? To us for? What is love? This orange filter. This reminds me. Hey hey hey. You're back. I mean, what a start. What's great about that start is you get all of the Tower of Power, and it's like you mentioned, like, David Garibaldi's bell patterns, which is like.
00:07:27:05 - 00:07:45:17
Unknown
I feel like it's just 1 or 2. The sound of his smile every time he goes to the bell. Get out of the way. Yeah. So let's just, introduce the band a little bit. So this is they've had a, sort of a rotating cast of especially vocalists even early on. But this is Lenny Williams on lead vocals, who I think is arguably the greatest tower of power.
00:07:45:18 - 00:08:03:16
Unknown
Yeah. This whole lineup. Right. So it's this and then back to Oakland and then Urban Renewal. I feel incredible run. Those three records are the records that I think of as definitive Tower of Power, even though I do love some of their later stuff. But, and that was most of the stuff. I don't know, it's most of the tunes I've heard, most of the tunes I've played, and most of the tunes I've heard referenced.
00:08:03:18 - 00:08:28:01
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. That run that you just mentioned is incredible. Back to Oakland, I think is, is on par with this album as well. Chester Thompson on the organ, who is simply a monster on the organ, great jazz player, two great jazz player. That's right. Bruce Conti on the guitars. By the way, everybody's singing as well, right as you're going, as you can hear, like, everybody's kind of background vocals.
00:08:28:03 - 00:08:49:12
Unknown
Rocco Prestia on the bass. Who we heard on that? What is hip where if you're not really paying attention, if you're maybe not listening to the different, instruments in this mix, you might miss it, but that bass is under everything. Here's a little stem. Just doing these driving 16 notes for the entire machine gun, especially on this tune.
00:08:49:14 - 00:09:08:20
Unknown
And it's like the opposite. It's such a great funk groove that he plays, but this is the opposite of what a bass player would normally like. You think about rotators or chains around with some space and simplicity like that. First, note that he played doom. That's like the longest note he plays. I, well, but this gets really effective.
00:09:08:22 - 00:09:25:01
Unknown
When he does stuff like that. Yeah. When he goes away from it and comes back to it when, especially when you put it in the context of Garibaldi's drum parts, because this is intro like this kind of machine gun firing line together. Yeah. And when you take this apart, when he goes down low there in the chorus. Yeah.
00:09:25:06 - 00:09:47:04
Unknown
Like that doesn't sound that funky, but that's the, that's a great funk rhythm section. You know, as you say, cook when you have the bass and the drums dialed in. But working as one unit, that really kind of proves it, you know, you got David Garibaldi, who, Kirk, you mentioned on the drums, who has since become a legend, of funk drumming is so influential.
00:09:47:06 - 00:10:07:06
Unknown
You mentioned, like, a drummer, a friend at at college introduced you to Tower of Power. Yeah, same. Same for me. Like, every drummer I knew in high school was like, well, he's currents drummer. Yeah, it's a great job. Everyone has a drummer in their life who introduces them. Exactly right. It's like a multi-level marketing scheme among drummers.
00:10:07:08 - 00:10:29:09
Unknown
Someone's making money somewhere. Yeah. You've got Brant Byers on the percussion. You've got, Doc Kubica on the Barry Sax. You actually have time to go through the hallways. It's a big band, the large ensemble. Yeah. It's one of the founding members who's still in the band to this day. Yeah, man, I just saw him play, and he's he's still doing it up there with the Barry incredible Barry sound.
00:10:29:11 - 00:10:46:21
Unknown
I believe this was I think this was Lenny Pickett's first album with the band. Yeah. And like 18 or 19 years old. Really young. When he. When he joined the band. There's some great video of young Lenny, in fact, infamous of young Lenny on some live Tower of Power in like, a really incredible jumpsuit, doing some dances.
00:10:47:01 - 00:11:01:20
Unknown
If you don't know Lenny Pickett from Tower of Power, you actually do know. You probably know him from this. Actually, he.
00:11:01:22 - 00:11:20:14
Unknown
He, of course, is the iconic alt tenor sound in the Saturday night Live band. He's been there. How many times do you think he's played this song? I don't know, like so hundreds and hundreds of times. I would love to hear just a compilation of every solo he's ever taken on the way in and the way out of it right now.
00:11:20:14 - 00:11:41:19
Unknown
It's really great. There's a definitely a consistency there, but he's probably like one of the most like him and Brecker and like Coltrane, one of the most listened to saxophone solos in the world ever. And easily. Yeah, there's I want to just play this clip to entirety because it gets insane in just a minute. You know, it's this is just the warm up.
00:11:41:21 - 00:11:49:15
Unknown
Yeah, it.
00:11:49:17 - 00:12:01:05
Unknown
The control up there is good. Yeah. And he plays each week like it's his first time. Like with the with the humanity and the excitement of you know it's so true.
00:12:01:07 - 00:12:19:22
Unknown
There are commercial breaks on Saturday Night Live where he'll just bring it so hard. And I'll just be watching the show like, yeah, like that. Something like that happens just at a kind of random commercial break that always knocks me out. By the way. And I've seen it. I've been there live before, like they're they're playing through the breaks and stuff.
00:12:19:22 - 00:12:36:16
Unknown
There's a lot of cool stuff happening and they hardly rehearse now. They used to rehearse several days. They rehearse like the day before. They're dialed in there. Good news regarding Lenny Pickett. We just booked him to do one of our Open Studio mentors session. So if you're in Open studio number eight, he's going to come in and talk for an hour about music, and you don't want to miss that.
00:12:36:18 - 00:13:05:19
Unknown
We also have another founding member. Member, tenor saxophone, Amelio Castillo. Is yo is on the tenor and backing vocals. Mike Gillette on the trombone, the trumpet, the flugelhorn, the baritone horn and backing vocals, and Greg Adams on trumpet, Lugo and string arrangements and conductor. There's also a couple of additional musicians. Jace spell an acoustic piano, I assume on Clever Girl, and Bruce Steinberg on harmonica.
00:13:05:21 - 00:13:25:08
Unknown
So. So when I saw these guys live, Emilio and Doc were that I think the two remaining members. Emilio seems like the nicest dude ever. Yeah, two of them, like, wrote a lot of this music, and they just seemed like, I don't know, their vibe is very particular and kind of unifies this band in a certain way. You get the feeling that they really are Tower of Power, that it's their thing.
00:13:25:09 - 00:13:42:07
Unknown
Yeah, I think so. And I wonder if they ever retire or stop playing. I assume the band will keep playing, but it does seem like right now it still is Tower of Power, because the heart is still kind of there with those two guys. But, I guess we'll we'll find out at some point. I hope they keep playing for, for another for many more years.
00:13:42:07 - 00:14:08:00
Unknown
Agreed. Now, can we just talk a little bit about the Bay area origins and stuff? Because I think when you talk about the heart and the soul in the sound and the vibe and like that particular way, I wrote down a couple of bands that I thought, I mean, there's so many great bands and musicians from the Bay area, but ones that were either kind of around this time or, you know, stylistically, Sly the Family Stone is the one that jumps out, you know, super influential.
00:14:08:00 - 00:14:24:21
Unknown
But also the Doobie Brothers. The Doobie Brothers actually started area before, you know, early on. Late, like 69. We got to get a Doobie Brothers episode. Yeah, we got to get that. And then. Yeah. And then I was thinking about Mike Clark, the great drummer. You talk about great drummers and funk drummer Mike and Paul Jackson and Paul Jackson.
00:14:24:21 - 00:14:41:03
Unknown
What are we thinking? Yeah, exactly. That unit from the rhythm section from the, Headhunters, you know, for sure. So many others. But I thought that those were kind of the, the funk connections. And then later on, you know, more or less drummer with the meters lived and I believe still lives in San Francisco. But that was that was later.
00:14:41:03 - 00:15:04:00
Unknown
That's the other funk, right? Bay Area Emilio tells the story about starting the band. So they were originally called the Motown's, or at least that was an earlier version of this band. And they were doing a kind of a Motown thing. And I think this was right around when he hired doc. He tells the story of hiring doc, where doc comes into the rehearsal with his Berry sax and plays, and Amelia says his dad takes him aside afterward and says, you have to hire that guy.
00:15:04:03 - 00:15:20:11
Unknown
You gonna get the guy in the band? And they kind of figure it out. He says that doc was a hippie, and the rest of them are doing a kind of buttoned up Motown thing with like, Supercuts. Yeah. And they had a more Motown sound. And then, you know, they're in the Bay area. It's, you know, after the 60s, but it's still very like the San Francisco.
00:15:20:14 - 00:15:38:00
Unknown
Yeah. And they go for that kind of more hippie thing, and that's when they find their sound. And it's interesting, like, I don't know, placing them in the lineage of funk. Garibaldi, I guess, was in the military, which I didn't realize he was a little older than the other guys, and he had heard James Brown and he'd heard, I'm assuming, Clyde Stubblefield.
00:15:38:00 - 00:15:55:09
Unknown
Yeah, for sure. And kind of got lit up by that style. And you could hear him taking that in the new direction, you know, like, according to his own, his own music. Well, I mean, about 25% of the tracks on this record are kind of Motown review. Ask it. All right. It's an interesting record because it's kind of this middle place.
00:15:55:09 - 00:16:17:13
Unknown
It's. And they never totally let go of that. But this is really, I mean, a couple of these songs. What like what's the swinging song. It's like the third or fourth this time it's real. Yeah, yeah, this time it's real. It just sounds like a different better. Yes, it's great, but it's very different. But it sounds like it could be from Smokey Robinson or the Supremes or something like that for sure.
00:16:17:13 - 00:16:36:20
Unknown
It even has kind of doo wop like kind of, you know, connotations to it. I was going to come up later in a little, segment that we do just a little bit later. Right. Okay. I don't I would be remiss without mentioning, I think one of my favorite, this this is almost my desert island track. In fact, I'm still on the fence about what my desert island track is going to be.
00:16:36:22 - 00:17:05:14
Unknown
Yeah, it's clever girl. It's notice to the. This is mixed volume wise lower. Yeah. Than everything else a different layer something. Yeah. Every girl you fool. Yeah. It's once again it's more compact. Clever. There's something different. I love the piano. Acoustic piano too. It's a different piano. But I think Chase Powell is playing. Yeah, I didn't have you on my mind.
00:17:05:16 - 00:17:37:22
Unknown
But, you know, it's a great track. I just don't feel like the winning. Like, how does it fit in with the album? Oh, you understand I must be just part of it. I just love it. I just think it's great. Oh it's great. Yeah, it's a good tune. Can best be part of your be like, clever girl. I think this era between 1972 and 1975, I think, had the greatest drum kit sound for, for my tastes.
00:17:37:22 - 00:18:12:04
Unknown
And I've mentioned this before on the show, whatever the kick drum thing they were doing, whatever they were doing with those kick drums, they sound so punchy but earthy, the entire kit, they're just that fill going down the toms just feels incredible. Who's the drummer? Sorry. Go ahead. Oh, there's something cool on this record with the mics that I've noticed that is actually changes with Back to Oakland, where the drums are mixed to the left like they're panned left, which is that that funny thing that happened from the 60s into the 70s where engineers kind of figured out the stereo pan and where everything should sit, or at least that's kind of how I assume
00:18:12:04 - 00:18:36:05
Unknown
it went that. Yeah, okay, the snare actually sounds good with the snare and the kick in the middle. Yeah, yeah. You saw the stereo panning the drums instead of doing the Beatles thing or Beatles thing, like smash everything to the left and right. And with this record, I think they did something really cool. Everyone's playing so locked in that it almost doesn't matter where anyone is panned, but they've got buyers over on the right, on the congas and the drum set over on the left.
00:18:36:07 - 00:18:50:12
Unknown
And, it, it it it like, I don't know, the two locking together in a really, really cool way. That leaves a lot of space for the rest of the arrangement. Yeah. And then I'm back to Oakland. The drums are kind of in the middle. Like, I don't change horses. Yeah, that's an amazing sounding track. It is.
00:18:50:14 - 00:19:09:12
Unknown
It sounds a little more like you'd expect a band like this to sound. That's really cool. I especially re listening to this album, getting ready to talk to you too. I was really struck by the mix and how unusual and cool it is. Yeah. Totally agree. I think what the song about the Tom sound and just the mix in general and the the vibe now, Michelle.
00:19:09:12 - 00:19:26:05
Unknown
My fingers. What's that band's sonic silk silks that, you know, the silk Sonic. Yeah. What's the difference? Yeah, they definitely I've heard that track, that last track Anderson. Anderson pack. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah yeah for sure. Right. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. The obvious. Yeah, yeah. That's their their whole band is based off of the 1972 drum set race.
00:19:26:08 - 00:19:43:14
Unknown
I like recreating this. Yeah. I love the vocal sound on this thing, man. A thing that really strikes me about the Tower of Power horns. And I should say, at some point here, I gotta do my spiel about horns you got here and like what this horn section means, maybe a little a little bit, because the vocals I think, sounds so gorgeous on this album.
00:19:43:14 - 00:20:05:13
Unknown
And in general, it's sort of an underrated aspect of Tower of Power. Agrees. How? I mean, everybody sings, but the horns all sing, and we had to do that when we were playing this music, and it's hard. There's a lot of you gotta sing, a kind of difficult part in really nice harmony, and then just put your horn in your mouth and, like, play a kind of difficult line and just jump back and forth between the two.
00:20:05:15 - 00:20:23:21
Unknown
You gotta do it like it's nothing. And I just love how it's recording, how it's recorded. There's this like bloom, there's such a kind of a gorgeous muted sound to the backup vocals. It's it's just great. I totally agree. I think we're going to get that actually in the next track that we're going to listen to, which is, get nice feedback on the ground.
00:20:23:23 - 00:20:35:04
Unknown
Okay. Do you like that? Is this something you might be interested in? Yeah. Okay. Come on. I'm in.
00:20:35:06 - 00:20:41:05
Unknown
You. There's that bell.
00:20:41:07 - 00:21:08:07
Unknown
They got that mix just like to like, you hear? Yeah. Come on, you ain't got no business trying to run. But, this guitar chills. Yeah. Cause I'm sick and tired of you trying to tell me what's wrong and what's right. Hey, I some solid funk right there. Gentlemen, if you're planning on Great bridge. It's been around for a while.
00:21:08:09 - 00:21:37:12
Unknown
You're gonna have to take your shot up and go. Be no more messing around, okay? Just get your feet back on the right. Oh, I fell oh, yeah. Hey, man, the articulation of the horn and the dynamics. Well, yeah, the play, but the articulation and the variety of it. Yeah, that's the real thing. I love what Chester is doing through here.
00:21:37:12 - 00:21:58:14
Unknown
Chester Thompson, the organist. Yeah. Really like a huge part between the bass, organ and drums and getting all and the percussion. And it's tasty. There's a lot happening. But for sure they're not overplaying. Yeah, they're, they're very sparse. Yeah. They know when to play and what not to me. And and just cast as well. I can't say enough about Lenny Williams.
00:21:58:17 - 00:22:05:21
Unknown
He fits just so perfectly with this band. Yeah, his voice is amazing.
00:22:05:23 - 00:22:25:22
Unknown
And the way he goes in and out of life. Let's get your feet back on the ground. You know, articulating the rhythm in the sake of passion. But then he'll go float above it. Yeah. Hey, yeah. That's a hey. And that blues that minor major happened at the same time. And.
00:22:26:00 - 00:22:59:01
Unknown
This is the sound of this guitar solo as well. It's so a friend. It is. It's harsh, almost dry. Pretty harsh. Yeah. This probably wouldn't sound like us today, but I sort of like that about it. That was so direct, though. But with the horns and the reverb, it's, it's a it's a good placement. Yeah. I think it is.
00:22:59:03 - 00:23:34:17
Unknown
I sometimes I can't, I can't. See. Yeah. Man, this would be the greatest wedding band ever. Oh, can you imagine? The wedding just deteriorates into bedlam. Throwing stuff. You get your feet back on the ground and that, you know, the architecture of the arrangement, the placement, the mix is like, always sort of the like whenever something like this and you have so much happening, but, like, it all fits together, you know, bravo to to the mix and the mastering.
00:23:34:22 - 00:23:51:11
Unknown
But in terms of like how they arranged, I mean, it's busy up in there and with funk like the heart. The hardest thing with like playing great funk is like being able to push all that stuff in there. You got a lot of people playing, you got the horns, you know, potentially potentially obtrusive at so many times, but it's in a delightful way.
00:23:51:11 - 00:24:07:19
Unknown
Every time they come in, like start solid in like, you know, and then they're out and then they're back in. And like the placement of it is fantastic. I love them. I wonder a lot about that. Just about the way that they the way that they arrange this or how consciously they, they approach that kind of stuff. Yeah.
00:24:07:19 - 00:24:25:19
Unknown
Just because it all seems so thoughtful. Like when I really broke down soul vaccination, which I'm sure we'll talk about, I was like, I was looking at this, this watch almost this, this timepiece that had been, you know, built where the the kick drum is, you know, leaving space for the bass that then fills in and then the high hat like, lines up with the guitar.
00:24:25:19 - 00:24:44:04
Unknown
Yeah. And then the horns, like, and everything is just like, put so perfectly together. Yeah. And I, I almost wonder if a lot of times like on my show, I do have these really deep breakdowns and recreations and I'm ascribing all of this, sort of intent to everything. But a lot of times guys just get together and they just sort of they're like, oh, that sounds good, I don't know.
00:24:44:04 - 00:25:00:09
Unknown
And then they just play it. It sounds fine. And I really wonder what the process for writing some of these songs was like. I love the watch analogy because it does feel like it has that kind of precision where every part is is balanced with the other parts in order to make, you know, everything happen. But you watch on so that you could demonstrate that watch.
00:25:00:09 - 00:25:19:12
Unknown
Okay. But I, I, yeah, you want to break it down, but, but I wonder the same thing. I wonder how much of that is, like, planned and how much of that is. I mean, there is some, some precedent for, music styles, especially funk has the tradition of, like, you're doing that. I'm going to do this right.
00:25:19:12 - 00:25:36:17
Unknown
You know what I mean? Like same thing, right? Brazil. Stay in your lane. Brazilian music right in the summer. Right? Like you're doing that. I'm doing this. That complements that. It's not exactly the opposite, but it does do a different thing. And it could have just been instinctual and sort of like molded over time. I got a quick question for both of you.
00:25:36:18 - 00:25:55:10
Unknown
Yes. Even though we're not on our deepest of dives, although we're getting pretty deep, we're getting close here. So I a little controversy I'm going to give you I'm, I'm gonna throw the line and see if you guys about Tower of Power. Is this a funk band? Yes, yes. What do you think? Yeah. I mean, they're really funky.
00:25:55:10 - 00:26:18:14
Unknown
I struggle sometimes with John like that because, like, I would describe, their style is incredibly funky horn, you know, extremely horn forward soul music, I guess. But it's funny because all those words can mean so many different things. Yeah, they were certainly inspired by James Brown more than anything, the funkiest of the funky. Yeah. And so they're in the lineage of funk, but they're their own thing for sure.
00:26:18:14 - 00:26:37:05
Unknown
I mean, they especially as we already mentioned, they they kind of jump styles a lot. Yeah. And at their funkiest. Yes. Like soul vaccination is, is pretty funky. Or when they're playing digging on James Brown, they're just doing James Brown covers and then they're open but like so sorry over nothing like both sorry over nothing. It's not well this is my thing I think.
00:26:37:07 - 00:26:53:07
Unknown
I think they're just a really a band that can play funk really well. Yeah, like at a high level, but I don't, I don't think that they're a funk band only because I'll say this like, not that they can't play at the same level as the great funk bands, the James Brown's The Meters, you know? I mean, you know what?
00:26:53:10 - 00:27:13:17
Unknown
You know, what kind of reminds me of it's like the Jackson five or the Jacksons later. It's like they can throw down on some funk, but they're not necessarily a funk band. They are funky, you know? But like a funk band. A real funk band. It's like everything they do, like they can't stop playing. That's true. You know, I can see there's a sort of a distance in with Tower Power that I think is interesting.
00:27:13:17 - 00:27:30:21
Unknown
They do a lot of songs that are about how cool soul music is. Yeah, they like to talk about what they're doing. Yeah. And they're almost commenting on it. I mean, even what is hip is that way. Yeah. When you hear Emilio tell this story about how doc joins the band and he realizes, oh, we're not cool. Their goal, I guess, was to play at the Fillmore.
00:27:30:22 - 00:27:47:16
Unknown
They're like, we want to play at the Fillmore. And he's like, well, if we got we got to be a hippie band. If we're going to play at the Fillmore, that's kind of, yeah, that's kind of thing. So they all grew their hair out and they became hippies. Yeah. And so that song is him like very, very clearly just writing a song about wrestling with how to be cool.
00:27:47:18 - 00:28:06:01
Unknown
Right. And that's like that actually a very like funk band kind of thing to do just kind of is cool. So there's a little bit of a distance there that, that I think is maybe musically being expressed in what you're talking about. Peter, in the, in the way that they're there was a little bit removed from everything they're doing, and they're just all very good, and they do it all very well.
00:28:06:01 - 00:28:22:12
Unknown
It is, it is it does have the air of sort of a funk band for music nerds. Yes. Like it is. Yeah, they're definitely nerds. Like they were nerds from the start. There's something lovable about that, too. Absolutely. No, not not a bad thing. I am a huge nerd. It's. We're all nerds here. It's fun. Yeah. And and.
00:28:22:14 - 00:28:37:02
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, we we're we're doing a collaboration between. Oh yeah 30 podcast. Yes. This is about as nerdy as it can guess, right? But it's not to say I didn't mean to say, like, if you drop the needle on any of these on two thirds of the tracks on this, I'm like, damn, that is a funk. Like, it doesn't get any funkier than that.
00:28:37:02 - 00:28:53:03
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, execution wise. So I'm, I'm not saying that there's like a separation between them or whatever, but there's just, there's certain things that they do that a straight up funk band. Even on that last track, it's like harmonically, like they'll push a little bit more, which I love it. It's almost like a fusion kind of thing.
00:28:53:04 - 00:29:15:08
Unknown
Yeah, definitely not a fusion band, but like just stuff that. It's kind of like Weather Report, like Weather Report at times would be so funky, but no one ever thinks about them as a funk band. But they can execute on funk at a very high level too. There's there's some pop elements to this too, is we're about to hear, I'm sure us all right.
00:29:15:10 - 00:29:35:14
Unknown
Ain't nothing I can say, nothing I can do. I love this song, by the way. I love the guitar playing on this thing. I feel so bad with that hat. This is my we were talking about at some. I had forward miking right there. Let me.
00:29:35:16 - 00:30:09:10
Unknown
I got to make it right for everyone else. I that's some Roberta Flack. You know Phil. Yeah. Even if it's me, if it's me, just me. Lenny was getting back. I'm great. Okay? Cause I could never make it. He wouldn't have me here. Make yourself miss. No. Up in the back up. I wish I did. He's makes it so.
00:30:09:12 - 00:30:46:13
Unknown
Excuse me. So. Many of those. I love it so much, I. I love you so. Yeah. Hey. Yeah. I might have to change my diamond tracks because, I mean, that song, it might be the best written song on the whole album. The biggest hit. Right? I think it was. It was their their biggest charting hit. As far as Tara Power songs go, it's such an incredible chorus.
00:30:46:17 - 00:31:04:12
Unknown
It's such. It's such a beautiful horn arrangement. Yeah. Lenny is just crushing it. Lenny Williams is crushing the lead vocals and you just really feel that song. Yeah. Well, we'll we'll see where we go here. We'll see where we go, because we're we're coming up to the big the big boy. Yeah. On the album, soul vaccination.
00:31:04:12 - 00:31:20:23
Unknown
So, Kirk, you did a whole episode on soul. I did. Do you have any insights before we play the track? No, I mean, I would say just listen to Rocco's bass line if you're going to pick one thing because it's a lot less busy, actually, than some of his other parts, and it fits in with Garibaldi's drums really well.
00:31:20:23 - 00:31:40:04
Unknown
And also with the guitar part, there's this a really neat interlocking thing going on, and then the congas are kind of just steady through the whole thing. Yeah. So it's got this really great foundation and then the horns, you know, I mean, the horn parts on this are pretty legendary. And, you know, they're pretty in your face, so they're hard to miss.
00:31:40:04 - 00:31:45:01
Unknown
But listen to the bass. The bass is pretty cool. Yeah.
00:31:45:03 - 00:32:03:17
Unknown
Oh, hello. I'm just from the start. That's still and is so incredible. What a great singer in the 70s was like the time up until the early 80s, you know, it was like the time of, like, just the perfect fill in man and not some lame, like, stop bad back, like I'm bad, you know what I mean? Like, know, right?
00:32:03:18 - 00:32:23:13
Unknown
Well, anything's lame. They really give it to us. Yeah, you do it. And that's what this is kind of sloppy, but I love it. I was going. Wow. Oh, I.
00:32:23:15 - 00:32:29:15
Unknown
Yeah. The bass line.
00:32:29:17 - 00:33:02:13
Unknown
So really listen to the bass and the guitar. Here they come all across the nation. Keep it from catching. Okay, Paul. But, yeah, when you get some notes, it sticks in my book, you know? That's out the motions. I'm gonna go back to nature. I'm ready for that action. So that's a great background vocals here for me.
00:33:02:15 - 00:33:42:22
Unknown
Yeah. So I hope. Who wrote about page six for Come On, man. Hey, follow my home protection plan. Like they get it ready for the injection. Cut down on the infection. Come to me, God. The collection. Come back. Vaccination. Help for. So vaccinations. So vaccination. Everybody standing up. Oh, God. I got to open it up here on the bridge.
00:33:43:00 - 00:33:56:06
Unknown
This. Love the delay that you back on the bell.
00:33:56:08 - 00:34:07:04
Unknown
Oh, yeah. The little snake on that. You're that and I.
00:34:07:06 - 00:34:17:06
Unknown
I. Bet that.
00:34:17:08 - 00:34:43:07
Unknown
Isn't Jeremy Saturday I. He doesn't know the name his I know things are these beaches here who. Bears got the keys. Y'all coming into my car? Yeah.
00:34:43:09 - 00:35:11:03
Unknown
Oh, one of my favorite best films of all time. Hey, I mean, that movie for. Baby, it becomes the the scoop to your sex. Good. Heard. They.
00:35:11:05 - 00:35:19:00
Unknown
Love how this is connected. They throw it up the top of the line.
00:35:19:02 - 00:35:22:18
Unknown
Where are.
00:35:22:19 - 00:35:25:12
Unknown
You.
00:35:25:14 - 00:35:47:18
Unknown
So what's finish nation? Yeah. Hold up your sleep. Cause if you ain't bugging you. My. You got it. He got the part, While responding to the treatment. Feel the beat down to your feet. You feel they picked up a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's definitely not where they started. Yeah. Should me. Yeah. No. You let all of the two minutes later on the two.
00:35:47:18 - 00:36:02:13
Unknown
Yeah I'd be excited to get excited. So vaccination everybody get in line. So that's a great show.
00:36:02:15 - 00:36:27:19
Unknown
One of the greatest Lenny Williams moments in this whole album happens with just a high high. It happens here. Yeah. This this coda to is incredible. Yeah. It stretches. Yeah. And they really milk it like when they do that sort of return. Oh yeah. Oh no. Oh oh kind of an Al Green like floats and butterfly. Yeah.
00:36:27:19 - 00:36:52:11
Unknown
He's really light on top. So you go back to baseline. All across the nation. Oh still speed up. Hell yeah. Okay. Well you never really hear it here. Oh, let.
00:36:52:13 - 00:37:35:00
Unknown
Us. Oh, yeah. So good. Oh. Vaccination. Yeah. Everybody get in line. You can go on the my, Oh. So come on now. Doesn't get much better soon. Yeah. Oh my god. Does not get much better. So I've got a couple of pull outs here. So the first thing that I want to listen to is I mean you mentioned the bass, but this drum.
00:37:35:02 - 00:37:43:21
Unknown
With the drums in the percussion. Yeah.
00:37:43:23 - 00:38:11:21
Unknown
It's not just a backbeat. Right. And you know, you mentioned the the Bay area thing. Oh, and you know what this reminds me of from a very similar time here. This is Mike Clark on Actual Proof. Oh, yeah, from Herbie Hancock's Thrust album.
00:38:11:23 - 00:38:33:08
Unknown
Oh, yeah. This really is. Yeah. It's this like, post Clyde period where Bernard is doing this stuff. Yeah. All these guys, they're kind of like, how far can we push the fat back thing? That's right. How far can we push the snare into the into the bar. Yeah. And still have it be funky. The answer is pretty far pretty apparently, as we've learned from these examples.
00:38:33:10 - 00:38:52:22
Unknown
The other cool thing to hear is, is the wins by themselves. And, hey,
00:38:53:00 - 00:39:10:07
Unknown
Oh, man. So this horn section, let me let me talk about this horn section for a second. For starters, this is like the Barry Sax Band, right? For sure. Everyone who starts playing Barry Sax is Scoob guy. And it's like, oh, okay. Like, that's something that I could do. I could be a part of the rhythm section. Barry can be cool.
00:39:10:08 - 00:39:26:03
Unknown
That's what they say. I could be like identifying sonic element of a whole band. Yeah. Something that really strikes me about Tower of Power is that they're they're really good at branding. Tara Powers a great band name. And then the Tower of Power Horns became their own whole thing. Yeah. When I first heard them, it was actually on a fish album.
00:39:26:03 - 00:39:39:17
Unknown
I was like, in high school, they played two tunes on this Phish album, hoist. And the tunes are great because like Fish is a fun band, and I like when I was in high school, but I was a saxophone player, so then suddenly they have this killing horn section playing with them, and I like them a whole lot more.
00:39:39:17 - 00:39:58:13
Unknown
And I'm like, tower power horns. Who exactly is that? That was kind of when I first learned that Tower of Power was a thing, when I didn't go and listen to their music. But this sound, I think this horn section, two trumpets, two tenors, Barry Sax, that is pretty solid. Like, I love a trombone, like having a bone in there.
00:39:58:13 - 00:40:22:01
Unknown
And he though one last tenor. Yeah, I, you know, I like that's like that's I do like that sad. Well sometimes they've they'll have guys I think one of their trumpet players with them now doubles on trombone. So they'll have guys who can double. But yeah that sound is huge and they use it so creatively, I think I love about Soul Vaccination, I talked about this some of my episode, they're so creative with how they use the different voices.
00:40:22:01 - 00:40:38:19
Unknown
Doc is kind of part of the rhythm section right there these times. You know, during that breakdown, boop boop boop boop boop boop boop. He's kind of in there with the rhythm section. Yeah, the tenors have their own little section, but I think that, something really cool that they do that I didn't even notice until I sat down with this song.
00:40:38:23 - 00:40:59:07
Unknown
They flip that tenor sax pattern, and when the trumpets come in so that when they're playing on their own, they play booth up it up. But I theta, and they do the scoop at the end when the trumpets come in, they go, but, theater, do it up. Yeah. Because of that, they they line up with the trumpets above, pivot about a donut.
00:40:59:07 - 00:41:15:09
Unknown
And everyone does that at the end together. And it's like, it's really cool. They've introduced this idea and then they just flip it. A very easy thing to do. There's so much clever stuff like that in their horn arranging. And they manage to make, a horn section that isn't that big. You know, it's not cow bases band or something.
00:41:15:09 - 00:41:42:05
Unknown
So big band, it's not even a mini big man. Yeah, it's a five piece horn section. Yeah. They make it sound big, cleverly. This is actually, you know, I mentioned cat battles earlier. Yeah. To shout out Peter's recordings one more time. That's the thing I love about that recording is it takes a what a quintet guitar, sax, piano, rhythm section and by cleverly working the arrangement and like establishing a melody, then handing the melody off and having the piano and the sax play a different melody, like it kind of gives you this sense of richness to the arrangement.
00:41:42:08 - 00:42:00:06
Unknown
And I think Tiger Power is very, very good at that. Let's check out that breakdown one more time that you were just talking about. Yeah. Let me just start with Lenny blowing our faces like a tea kettle.
00:42:00:07 - 00:42:07:06
Unknown
So there's the tenor line here, the tenor tenors here. Yeah. You.
00:42:07:08 - 00:42:21:09
Unknown
Have they go into harmony? Yeah, there's only two of them, but there's, you know, it's a little variety. And now let's let's.
00:42:21:11 - 00:42:32:05
Unknown
Go. All right. Man, place a cream.
00:42:32:07 - 00:42:37:04
Unknown
Yeah.
00:42:37:06 - 00:42:53:21
Unknown
And they're done. It's it's like not a second. Did they just know each new time through they introduce something new and then they just finish it. It's so immaculate. The pacing of this. Like like the architecture. I keep coming back to that just thinking about, like, the placement and how it's like they built a tent. Is a tower.
00:42:53:21 - 00:43:14:12
Unknown
Yeah. Oh, power. Not so great, I could say. Yeah. No, I think your point about, you know, I was thinking of that. I keep looking back to the personnel. I'm like, man, this sounds like such at times. Such a huge horn section. Like that ability to to to use this instrumentation is really genius. Fellas, let's get to some categories here.
00:43:14:13 - 00:43:34:05
Unknown
Yeah. So we've got to add a flair on the, desert island tracks. Peter, what do you got? I mean, I got what is hip like to me, that's sort of, you know, soul vaccination is great, of course. And there's other stuff. It starts out like, I mean, this is the one, you know, and listen to this whole album and really exploring like that.
00:43:34:07 - 00:43:50:21
Unknown
So I don't know if you know this Bobby Kirk, I'm very literal. When we talk about a desert on a track, I mean, literally if, like, Adam's, like dropping me off with the sailboat. Bye bye, friend. I'm going to, like, take over your whole life. You're living here from now on. Here's one CD with one track on it and an endless battery, but that's what you have to listen to.
00:43:51:02 - 00:44:08:11
Unknown
And so that's what I make my choice. Choice with. Like every day I would get up with that and have a great time. I mean, it's it's everything. It's such a perfect first track to which is an obvious thing from the standpoint of like, oh, put your strongest foot forward. But like as we've said, like there's kind of like there's a lot of this whole record is strong.
00:44:08:11 - 00:44:25:22
Unknown
I mean, like execution wise, playing wise, that's not a difficulty from them. There's not necessarily weakness, but there's a lot of different types. Well, to me, there's two different types of things happening in terms of like the music on here. So for me, I gravitate towards the funk for sure. And this is the one that, you know, that does it for me.
00:44:25:22 - 00:44:45:23
Unknown
So, Kirk, what about you? I think mine has to be soul vaccination. I made an episode about it yesterday. But you took your hand on that one, sir. And it really is. You know, it's like seeing them live. When they went into that song, that was the one. It's the song that if I had to pick one Tower of Power song, I'd pick that one.
00:44:46:01 - 00:45:02:12
Unknown
Though. What is hip is right up there. So is Don't Change Horses. And, I don't know a few others, but like. But it just it's the one. It's got kind of everything. It's got Lenny. Yeah. I got to represent the sax players. It's got his first solo with Tower of Power and, And. Yeah, I think it's.
00:45:02:12 - 00:45:19:12
Unknown
I think it's got to be that one that I hear new things in it. Every time I listen to it. I still kind of appreciate right now. For me, it's just the little things that the rhythm section is doing. Yeah. In the spaces in between, like we've been talking about, it's just such a killin track I had that originally is mine, but are you going to change?
00:45:19:12 - 00:45:37:08
Unknown
I did change, nice. I'm just such a sucker for a love song. And I love so very hard to go so much. Really good. It is great. Like every time they go to the second quarter, that chorus bothered him. Yeah, I just. And Lenny sings that oh, I couldn't do that. You're never going to get tired on the island.
00:45:37:08 - 00:45:55:20
Unknown
Listen to that. I mean they're just chills every time. But first I love a verse that goes to two what it's like 1 to 2, two minor, two minutes back to one. And I don't know if songs go to two seven because the second chord in the verse anymore. And I love that. It's a beautiful, bold move. And I mean, in a lot of ways I get it.
00:45:56:01 - 00:46:10:13
Unknown
But my thing is like, if you're on the stuck on the island like you are, what? What is love mean anymore? You're alone for us. You know what I'm saying? Like, you better get you got to keep your spirits up, man. You gotta. You're going to be so sad eventually. So very hard to go. I told you, I'm very literal.
00:46:10:13 - 00:46:26:22
Unknown
I know you really are. Okay. Apex moments, what are the apex moments for this album? Peter, you start. So I think, oh, on what is hip? Everything that's happening during the trumpet solo, it's not even so much the trumpet soul. I think they it's like a secondary. Is there a second trumpet solo? Maybe it's just the only one.
00:46:27:04 - 00:46:35:11
Unknown
But like once he goes into that. Yeah, it's the second one. Maybe we could just I don't know if we can find.
00:46:35:13 - 00:46:41:06
Unknown
Yeah. I think that.
00:46:41:08 - 00:46:50:09
Unknown
Yeah.
00:46:50:11 - 00:47:18:19
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, it's like all that obtrusive stuff jumping in. That's a great solo, too. There. It's not like on its own, like this great solo. Because he's holding this stuff. He's got, I think, a phaser going on it or some like a penalty, but it's perfect for all that, all the jabs behind and everything and like pulling it out like this, we're not totally doing it justice, but by the time you get to this point on the track where it's such an interesting thing, like, because you know what you would think it would be like with that adapter where, you know, it's like, oh, that.
00:47:18:19 - 00:47:50:09
Unknown
But he's just like, we're everything's like jamming and like, I think it's the hardest thing. All the shit happening underneath him. Yeah. The rhythm section is like dialed in by that point to the point of like by that point what they weren't oh, they start saying, oh no. But like, that's the danger with this kind of like, well-executed funk is like when you start out and like, I think James Brown bands a lot of like Bootsy, George, Clint, you can talk about they all navigating this in different ways, but what where do you go when you start out like funky like stank face funky on the first beat, you know, where do you go?
00:47:50:09 - 00:48:05:03
Unknown
You do have to go somewhere else. And it's a subtle thing. It's like a structural thing. It's you're not going to get any funkier than how they started, but they somehow get a little bit more intense with like the arrangement and the tapestry, everything that's happening. I love it. Kirk, what about you? What's your apex moment for this album?
00:48:05:05 - 00:48:22:16
Unknown
Well, I had one pick that I think might also be yours, so I'm going to leave that one for you at home. Thank you so much. I have a couple. One is that tune. Get your feet back on the ground. Just kind of snuck up on me when I was listening to it. That first B section, Rocco plays this kind of displaced room.
00:48:22:18 - 00:48:43:09
Unknown
Like, not a corner. Nothing of it just goes across the bar line and, just kind of knocked me out. The groove on that is is really great. And, so it's one for sure. You're planning on a little round one. Here we go. You don't have to trade. Don't stop. That's pretty great. And he never plays it exactly like that.
00:48:43:09 - 00:48:57:08
Unknown
Yeah. On the any of the other B sections. But that first one, I was on a run listening to it and I was just like, oh yeah, okay. So that was pretty good. And I guess if I can, if I can cheat and have one more, it would be that final chord of so very hard to go. Oh okay.
00:48:57:08 - 00:49:21:00
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. This is such a cool solo vaccination. It's kind of the transition. Like it ends on this just big fat major chord. Yeah. It just kind of makes me laugh. And then they just out of nowhere. So vaccination hits with that opening thing. And it's just a really incredible transition between two of their best songs. But that's also the thing which we talking about that don't think think like those little things.
00:49:21:00 - 00:49:44:14
Unknown
That's what I'm saying. Like once it's like you got to find something else to change it up. Like little subtle things. Those little Easter eggs. Good at that. Let's hear that. Very good to hear that transition because it is a hilarious last chord. It's very it's very funny. Is it. It's like the anti faith. Yeah. Great. It's like any other song would fade and they're like no we're just going to end.
00:49:44:16 - 00:50:10:18
Unknown
So good. And then. Oh and then you're it's just so good. That's a great call that that might actually be the apex. That core just somebody slipped to like a major seventh. The guitar does something. Oh yeah. He was just like, let's go back. Oh, no. I think somebody played a major. There's a little something. Yeah.
00:50:10:20 - 00:50:30:04
Unknown
Oh, very. Maybe, it might have been a horn. Yeah, yeah. That's great I love that, that's that, that's actually Kirk. That's a great take. That could be the the apex. Now I'm going to go with something a little more obvious. And it's just this.
00:50:30:06 - 00:50:55:00
Unknown
Captain obvious is call after Hubbard. He's saying, what else? But it is the apex moment. I mean, if if just off the top of my head without any thought, I was like, yeah, that's the best thing, because it is. It's like the most obviously. Let's hear that. Hear that in context actually. Oh, vaccinate. So vaccination let everybody get in line for vaccination.
00:50:55:02 - 00:51:11:19
Unknown
Oh yeah. And really the band does make it right. The whole. Yeah. The whole some of that clapping on that hit, I mean that is really what makes it work. Yeah. Okay. I got a question for you, Adam. And for you, Kirk. Okay. Yeah, yeah. That Garibaldi Phil we just heard versus, Jerry Robinson on the intro.
00:51:11:19 - 00:51:26:07
Unknown
Phil on Rock with you, Michael Jackson. Oh, why does doesn't do that to me right now? That's the talk. But that's what comes to mind first. Like, greatest drum fill of the 70s although was rock with you. Yeah. That was the 70s. Are you serious? Yeah. You know which. Oh he's going to pull it up. He's going to actually like Kirk.
00:51:26:07 - 00:51:46:23
Unknown
What do you think. Yeah. Play it. Let's let's let's hear it one time. Garibaldi's got recency bias for me. Yeah I mean that's one more time. One more time. All right. Hold on. Hold on back to the Garibaldi. We're going to able to also because once a set up in ones like blind, you know,
00:51:47:00 - 00:52:03:18
Unknown
Yeah it's tough. There are different there. Anybody? One is so showy, you know, it's so fast. He's. I mean, I guess I pick that they're kind of serving different functions. It's very hard to choose. Yeah. That opening it felt the opening of Rock with you is a pop scenario. Yeah. You know what I mean? I mean that is like, don't you know that?
00:52:03:18 - 00:52:21:21
Unknown
Duh. It's a hook. Yeah. There's a melody. I mean, he had to bring melodic. Yeah. And it was super calculate, you know, Quincy, another drummer do it. He had JR like, redo it and then do another thing and like it was you know I think Garibaldi on that was just like on the do some crazy shit and then the horns are gonna come in and that's right.
00:52:21:23 - 00:52:37:19
Unknown
That's the thing I really like about Tower of Power. That reminds me of something I was. I've been thinking about listening to them. I loved you guys. This episode on Asia, the Steely Dan record, which is, I think, a really interesting comparison to this. It's a few years later. Yeah, but it's all a session, guys, the way you're talking about, you know, with, with an MJ record.
00:52:37:20 - 00:52:56:01
Unknown
Yeah, they brought a bunch of guys in. They had a million different, like a different drummer on every track. There really perfecting everything. What I really like about Tower of Power is that as as much as they sound like those 70s studio records, they're just a band. Yeah, yeah, just guys who like, made a band. And then they started as a band for like decades.
00:52:56:03 - 00:53:17:02
Unknown
And they just, you know, when you look at their when you look at their resumes, I mean, they've all done some other stuff, but nothing like crazy major or gone off and had like solo careers other than the singers like, like Lenny Williams, and then like, and Lenny Pickett. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A couple of guys. Well, yeah, but the core that's like Tower Power is a better gig.
00:53:17:02 - 00:53:33:11
Unknown
Yeah, for sure. But that's like, maybe that's an SF thing to a town. Look at it, Sly the family Stone, Doobie Brothers, Steve Miller band out of the Bay area. What do you know about that? And that was actually, Yeah. There you go. All right, fellas, bespoke Spotify playlist titles. Peter, what do you got?
00:53:33:12 - 00:53:51:03
Unknown
Oh, well, let me see here. Bespoke Spotify playlist, East Bay Groove Masters, East Bay grooves. Yeah. Well I wanted to give a little I mean, there's like San Francisco Bay area. We there's a whole nother level like East Bay versus San Francisco and stuff there very much East Bay. So I've got a couple I've got I've got unk.
00:53:51:03 - 00:54:10:20
Unknown
So that's got which could have been dad. So I've got Oakland Funk, and I've got Shake Your Brass. Not my best work but it'll it'll do. Kirk, what do you guys. I had a couple. One is Modern Drummer Presents. Since I feel like I've been presenting Dave Grohl. That's really good. I love that one. That might win.
00:54:11:00 - 00:54:26:21
Unknown
And then I realize, like, I was trying to come up with some, but they. It's kind of going back to that. The thing where Tara Power is kind of writing songs about funk. Yeah, they kind of talk about themselves in a lot of ways. Yeah. They come up with better playlist names for their albums I could ever come up with, like East Bay grease.
00:54:26:21 - 00:54:46:02
Unknown
Yeah, it would be what I would call a Tower of Power playlist. And that's the Tower of Power album. Yeah. So, you know, that's a Tower of Power would be a great playlist. Yeah. For like Foreign Base, right. There are master brands they really offer. Yeah. Branding. Okay. Up next, what other albums pair with this album? Kirk, why don't you go first on this?
00:54:46:04 - 00:55:14:07
Unknown
Well, I picked, I picked young, Gifted in Black, the Aretha record from 1972. I did an episode, actually, with my buddy Ross, who is my Tower of Power. Introducer. The dealer who dealt me the gateway drug of Tara Power. He, came on the show to sort of go through a bunch of different iconic funk grooves, and we started back with Clyde and Jarboe, some of that stuff from James Brown, and went up through zig playing with The Meters and and then Bernard playing, Bernard Purdie playing on this Aretha record.
00:55:14:08 - 00:55:33:01
Unknown
Yeah. And that was 72 a year right before this. And we were kind of just getting into this more technical sort of second order Clyde Stubblefield fatback stuff like we're hearing on this record. Like we were talking about where how far can you displace the back feet, you know, how much, how technical and 16th notes and weird can you get.
00:55:33:02 - 00:55:56:00
Unknown
Yeah. And have it still be funky. And man, I mean, so young, gifted in black, an amazing record, an incredible band. Yeah, super, super groovin and a really different kind of funk. Like a different kind of soul, whatever you want to call it then this album. But a really cool counterpart and one that I think, you know, anyone listening to this would do well to like, go back to like, Cold Sweat, you know, that late 60s James Brown stuff and listen to what Clyde is playing.
00:55:56:05 - 00:56:22:06
Unknown
Then go up through the meters, go up through Bernard Purdie. Yeah, it's Aretha record. Listen to Tower of Power and then get up to like that Steely Dan stuff and some of the later, you know, Jeff Porcaro and some of these other, Dennis Chambers like, guys who kind of take it even further. Yeah. Because it's a really cool thing to actually identify the hierarchy or the or not the hierarchy, the lineage, the drum of those drum grooves and like, take it back to James and then, you know, and Clyde and all of that.
00:56:22:06 - 00:56:39:15
Unknown
And then so that's my pick is a young Gifted in Black also just a great record that you can listen to. You literally any day. So great. I love that that idea, the lineage and man Purdie might be sort of the main connector between all that actually. Like he's the yeah, all the way up to Steely Dan and you know like especially because he's a studio guy.
00:56:39:15 - 00:56:52:19
Unknown
So he played with so many different people. But you hear Bernard, I like with every friggin band like through the 70s and the 80s. Yeah. They brought him into to play on was it Inner Visions and some of the talking book stuff? I don't think any of it made it on there, because Stevie ended up playing the like.
00:56:52:19 - 00:57:12:13
Unknown
Steve was like, we got to get a real drummer. He's not shit. I mean, he did pretty hurt. It was like, nah, I think it's cool. I'm good. Pete, what do you got? Up next? Okay. So I was kind of. I was looking for stuff right around this time for some reason. I love the young, gifted black because I think about, like, if you listen to this and you went right into that, that would be such a vibe, you know what I mean?
00:57:12:18 - 00:57:33:01
Unknown
But I've got, rejuvenation, one of my favorite record, which was either from 73 or 74 right around then. And of course has a lot of like, interesting crossover, just sort of vibe, you know, funk vibes, of course. And then also payback, James Brown, that was 1974, a great call. That's a cool record that like, yeah, when I went back and I was like, man, that's like, that's a whole vibe with with James Brown.
00:57:33:01 - 00:57:52:12
Unknown
A very different thing than most people know. But I highly recommend that record. I'm going to go with anything from, Grand Central Station, Larry Graham basis with Sly and the family Stone. So there's a connection, but the members of Grand Central Station. So, the tower power horn section recorded with Grand Central Station. Lenny Williams sang with Grand Central Station.
00:57:52:12 - 00:58:14:15
Unknown
So there's a strong connection. Also, it's just incredible music. It's incredible. Incredible. And I caught a train at Grand Central Station last week when I was in New York. Quibble bits. I'll start this one. So my only quibble bits aside from, a couple of songs. So I have a quibble bit with your, read if, if you're sticking with what you.
00:58:14:15 - 00:58:36:15
Unknown
I have a quibble bit with this, but go ahead. Okay. Aside from, like, so very hard to go, I don't think the lyrics are that strong. What? Keep going. I just don't I just, I just pure soul vaccination. Come on. The title is before you even get the lyrics is killing me. It's good but it's not. There's there could be more stories to tell, is what I'm saying.
00:58:36:15 - 00:58:56:14
Unknown
Some of it feels like, just kind of not, not as, thought out as even, like, the horn arrangements. What a whole take on this. I want to hear, Peter. I want to hear what you think. The whole take on Tara Power lyrics. Actually, I kind of agree, you know what I mean? But I mean, like, I there's a beautiful orchestration happening and then they're just like, yeah, I have a girl.
00:58:56:16 - 00:59:17:03
Unknown
You got me on the run. You know what. Yeah. But it also during that period and with funk bands in general, I know where we, I just said earlier, this is not a funk band, but especially on the funk stuff actually, their lyrics are pretty crafty for the funk stuff. I don't know, man. You listen to Parliament Funkadelic and there's like a whole like the lyrics, a different language they're speaking, I know, but like, okay, but that's the thing though, right?
00:59:17:03 - 00:59:36:19
Unknown
Like there's, there's kind of a, a dorky ness, a little bit of power, especially if you get later. Okay. So one of my favorite top tunes is there's only so much oil in the ground, and this is a song written about the oil shortage that people were thinking about. It's again, it's like they're always just sort of, oh, well, we gotta change our vibe and be hip.
00:59:36:19 - 00:59:55:18
Unknown
Let's write a song about that. And this is like, oh, that, that literally the lyrics to this are like, alternate sources of power must be found because there's only so much oil in the ground. Very literal lyrics there. They kind of go all the way around to becoming amazing because they're so silly. The I remember when the, the big solo that I had when we played a bunch of Tara Power stuff live, we played credit.
00:59:55:20 - 01:00:10:01
Unknown
Do you guys have the tower of our song credit? Is that from the 80s? It is, yeah, I think I know it's about how credit cards are really cool. I know that one. I know that one. The lyrics are gone. Get it with your good credit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't hit the town. You don't need that bread.
01:00:10:01 - 01:00:31:00
Unknown
Like it's all about how credit very literal. Literally that was one that was one of Uncle Joey's favorites. That whole it's a it's grooves incredibly hard and has a killing sax on it. But the lyrics are the lyrics so. Right, hold up, hold up with no good planning is actually killing. It's it's a commercial. It's a visa commercial.
01:00:31:01 - 01:00:47:12
Unknown
Right. So it almost is a flex to write the goofiest lyrics possible and have it grooves so hard that it doesn't really matter. Yeah, but that is kind of a recurring thing with them. And then. Yeah, when you compare them to like, I don't know, Earth, Wind and Fire and you're doing this whole kind of in the family style thing.
01:00:47:12 - 01:01:08:21
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. Sly and the family Stone for Stevie. Stevie, as much as it doesn't hold them back. Exactly. Because their Tower of Power, they're legends. Yeah. You do hear someone else doing more interesting lyrics and you're like, well, okay, maybe, but if they had a little more going on lyrically, the band would be even better, so I do, I do agree in the end, even though I'm charmed generally by Tara Power lyrics.
01:01:08:21 - 01:01:30:07
Unknown
Just cause like so exactly iconic Peter and what is hip and then you're going to just list out exactly, exactly. All the same. It's not right. It's I mean that's in the long tradition of list songs is not a bad one. It's literally the opposite of Steely Dan, where like, everything is cryptic and so totally unnecessary character. That may or may not be them, but it's maybe just some guy they met once.
01:01:30:07 - 01:01:51:06
Unknown
Yeah. So, Peter, you got a couple bits. Yeah. Well, I mean, to me, the kind of doo wop ish early soul ballad stuff, tracks on several tracks. I'm looking at you this time. It's real. Especially. Yeah. I mean, it's fine. You think this is swinging? I mean, it's nothing that swinging, but I mean, I don't even care about that.
01:01:51:07 - 01:02:08:03
Unknown
Call me a girl today. Like it just sounded. It sounds dated, but not for this. It doesn't set. It doesn't it doesn't really. So it's jarring in the flow of the album. And it sounds dated for when it was, you know, like a lot of people would be like, oh, like, well, no one ever says like some killin funk like they do.
01:02:08:03 - 01:02:25:04
Unknown
Oh, that's so dated. It's like, no, it's so dated, you know, whereas this is kind of like they're jumping back to another time and they do kind of sound like the world's best wedding band on that track. You can hear that, that history, right. That they kind of changed the kind of band that they were. Yeah. And they were still kind of figuring that out.
01:02:25:04 - 01:02:46:11
Unknown
Maybe a little bit. Yeah. Kirk, you have couple bits. Yeah. You know, I have one that I'm not sure is really a quibble a bit, but I've always felt a little like I want a little more from the soloists on Tower of Power records. But then I think. But actually, it's really restrained, and I don't know if I need super long solos, like there's a live version of Squib Cakes where Lenny Pickett takes this 8 million.
01:02:46:11 - 01:03:02:19
Unknown
Yeah, it's like nine minutes long. Yeah, yeah. And it's great. It's a real feat of endurance. It's really exciting. They're going off. I'm sure it was awesome live, but at the same time it's so it's kind of been a quibble that I wish there was a little more interaction going on, I guess. And maybe that's more what I'm looking for.
01:03:03:00 - 01:03:20:08
Unknown
Listening to Lenny plan solo vaccination, you could hear the conga kind of reacting to what he's doing. There's a little bit of interplay going on, but mostly it's like a watch. They're pretty locked in. The soloist kind of just stands in the arrangement and does their thing, and I felt this way, seeing them live as well. There wasn't a lot of stretching.
01:03:20:08 - 01:03:39:00
Unknown
So, you know, I wanted to shout one thing out live because I didn't mention him. This guy Jordan John is their lead singer now. Yeah, yeah, he's a young dude. He like can sing anything. He has a totally unbelievable voice and can play guitar. He can, you know, he can like do the whole like singing guitar ripping thing.
01:03:39:02 - 01:03:58:13
Unknown
And seeing someone like that playing with Tower of Power was kind of an interesting contrast. Like he could really light it up as a soloist, and they gave him that opportunity a couple times, and I was actually sort of struck by how it didn't quite fit, because I'm so used to whatever is interesting. Maybe I picked a quibble a bit that I don't fully believe in, so I could talk myself out of it on the show.
01:03:58:15 - 01:04:18:07
Unknown
Maybe the shirt, the shirt control, the solos are actually really work, even though in the past I've sometimes felt like I want a little bit more from the solos. Very kind of like a quibble bit sandwich that Kirk's doing here. It is a little bit, but just some compliments around here for, anemometer. One being not snobby and ten being extremely snobby.
01:04:18:07 - 01:04:35:08
Unknown
Peter, what do you got? I mean, I put three because, you know, I was good. I want one at first. Yeah, but then I'm like, there's there is a snobby element a little bit because it's hard. I mean, how can anything that's so horn focused not be super snobby? Yeah. You know what I mean? But it's so accessible.
01:04:35:13 - 01:04:53:07
Unknown
It's so again, like I say, like they would literally be the greatest wedding band ever. So, like, anybody could dance. Anybody can enjoy whether you knew it like, it's a very welcoming. So that, sound and vibe and everything. I mean, even the stuff that's not even his eyes that I feel like is not their strongest stuff is still.
01:04:53:08 - 01:05:14:14
Unknown
Yeah, eminently, eminently listenable. So I'm a little bit lost. But I put three Kirkwood you got. Yeah. Had a three as well. It's it's funny, I don't always hear a lot of Tower of Power, you know, kind of ubiquitously like just kind of around. There's this band Lawrence do you guys do other these this young kind of really, really great band.
01:05:14:14 - 01:05:29:10
Unknown
They do a tune called Hip Replacement and then they throw in what is hip like they're it's just kind of a Lawrence song. And then suddenly they just go straight into the guitar riff and the bassline and everything, and it was really cool and made me kind of realize, oh, this is nice. Like people are carrying on the part.
01:05:29:10 - 01:05:50:17
Unknown
I think it is kind of out there. So it's, you know, it's not a super snobby, unapproachable music by any extent, even though it's a little bit niche and always kind of has been it's always been its own little thing. So yeah, I put a three as well, just because it's not quite a one, but it's very approachable and, you know, the people who know, they know, is it better than kind of blue?
01:05:50:17 - 01:06:13:09
Unknown
Kirk, why don't you start? No. That's all you got to say, Peter? No. No, for me as well. Yeah, obviously. Accouterments. So album cover. What do you think? Well, you guys go first on this because I think I might be. I've got five, which is kind of. Let me get mine. I got. Yeah. Good. Yeah. That's why we gotta start showing this stuff.
01:06:13:09 - 01:06:33:07
Unknown
Right. I got five, which is kind of a bullshit answer. It's nothing really great. It's nothing that bad. It's just kind of. Yeah, it's fine. It's a little low effort. Yeah. Really serious drop shadow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a lot of drop shadow. It's a powerful drop shadow. Yeah. It's a funny picture. I mean, it's it definitely conveys that this is a very big band.
01:06:33:12 - 01:06:49:04
Unknown
Yeah. Hold this over where you guys can see it. Yeah. And it's, it's kind of just weird because it's like a photo that's been washed out and is only half developed or something. It was like purposely at the playback. So Kirk, one out of ten, what do you give it? Given it's what do I have? I have a three.
01:06:49:04 - 01:07:05:00
Unknown
I don't think it's that exciting. Peter. Yeah, you guys are hard. Okay, I give it a seven. I don't think it's great, but I give it some extra points because it's weird AF. And isn't there, like, some weird. Yeah. Isn't there some, like, weird characters above there? Or maybe that was just my copy of it. Somebody had drawn on it, so I might have.
01:07:05:03 - 01:07:25:16
Unknown
Isn't there something like Above Their Heads? It's kind of. No, it's like it's you can see the amps and, you know, like a little bit of detail, but no, it might just be that you have a particularly weird version, but you can give your version a seven. I mean, well, I also, I like it seems to be like purposefully potato quality, which I don't know why they would do that, but they did it, you know.
01:07:25:18 - 01:07:45:06
Unknown
Yeah. No, it's true. It is kind of a 70s thing where I think of Carole King's Tapestry album cover, where she's just sitting there with her cat and. Yeah. And then I think about all the work that goes into making an album cover. Now, I know, I don't know, that's a brilliant album cover. So it picture? Yeah, that's Carole King's, that's the tapestry album cover is brilliant because it evokes what it feels like to listen to that for sure.
01:07:45:07 - 01:08:00:21
Unknown
And you're like, you're hanging out with your your best friend Carole King. Yeah. All right. Well, that's all we got. I want to do a little bit of a shout out here. So we always read a rating or review or a comment. And, Kirk, in honor of having you as our guest, I thought we could read one.
01:08:00:23 - 01:08:20:17
Unknown
A little rating and review from the Strong Songs podcast. Way I Like It. Five stars. Musical genius. This is from, Amy Hess. This show never fails to give me chills. The way Kirk combines verbal explanation with musical samples to break down a song is mind blowing, and I recognize how much time, care and editing finesse he puts into each episode.
01:08:20:17 - 01:08:36:20
Unknown
What he does is not easy to do. Kirk Hamilton, thank you for joining us today. I delight to have you on the show. Thank you guys. This was such a pleasure. Really, really a pleasure. And I love the show. And, I'd be happy to come back anytime. This was a delight. We'd love to have you back, man.
01:08:36:20 - 01:08:54:13
Unknown
Great stuff. Thank you. Kirk. Everybody go, subscribe to Strong Songs now. Yeah, and we'll link to, soul vaccination. I mean, that's. Oh, yeah. I haven't heard that episode yet, but after doing this, I've heard some of your other ones and they're fantastic. And I'm looking forward to that. We'll link to it so much directly that for a deep dive and,
01:08:54:15 - 01:09:10:15
Unknown
Yeah man. Cool. Thank you guys. Yeah. Oh, also just a shout out. Don't you have a live event happening coming up this summer? Oh, yeah, I do. I should shout that out. So I, I'm gonna be playing a bunch of music in Portland. It's actually with a different podcast. I make a podcast called Triple Click that's about video games.
01:09:10:17 - 01:09:29:10
Unknown
And we're doing a live show at the, Alberta Rose Theater on July 11th in Portland, Oregon. But there's going to be music. I'm writing songs for it. Yeah. One of my other co-hosts is also a great songwriter. We've got a whole thing worked out. It's gonna be super fun. It's also my first ever Portland Live podcast show, and I want to do strong songs live with, like, a whole band and a whole thing.
01:09:29:10 - 01:09:50:02
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. So this is kind of a test run for that. So I really want to get people to come out. So yeah, Alberta Rose theater, July 11th coming out. It's going to be a lot of fun. All right. Great man. Well till next time you'll hear it. Yeah.
