00:00:00:04 - 00:00:10:21
Unknown
But let you be. Bidi bidi bidi bidi bidi bidi bidi bidi bidi bidi. Do you baby, baby. Snorkel.
00:00:10:23 - 00:00:38:20
Unknown
Boo boo boo boo boo. The seashells. Redneck. Riviera. Flora. Bama. What are you doing? Oh, I'm working on my aquatic jazz. What is aquatic jazz? What it's like stuff that has to do with the sea. You're like this song. Where? Oh, okay. Yeah, but Neath the sea is somewhere waiting for me. I got you and we'll go sailing.
00:00:38:20 - 00:01:37:15
Unknown
Not sure the sail. Maybe try something hipper. That's aquatic. Seashells. Yeah, baby. Oh, you want something else? Yes. Okay, how about this? Yes.
00:01:37:15 - 00:01:39:13
Speaker 1
I'm Adam.
00:01:39:15 - 00:01:40:14
Speaker 2
And I'm Peter Martin.
00:01:40:14 - 00:01:50:19
Speaker 1
And you're listening to the you'll Hear It podcast, Music explored. Explored, brought to you today by Open Studio. Go to Open Studio jazz.com for all your jazz lesson needs.
00:01:50:20 - 00:01:53:16
Speaker 2
Yes sir I will. I like that we got somewhere else for him to go to, right?
00:01:53:17 - 00:02:07:12
Speaker 1
We do indeed, yes. So if you're one of our dear, you'll hear at listeners slash viewers, you probably have an opinion on this podcast I do. I know you do. We'd love to hear from you. And we'll give you a chance to pick up a nice prize. Oh, you like prizes?
00:02:07:12 - 00:02:09:15
Speaker 2
I like prizes, I like sir prizes.
00:02:09:15 - 00:02:11:15
Speaker 1
You are not eligible for a prize or a.
00:02:11:15 - 00:02:13:05
Speaker 2
Surprise, but all the dear listeners are.
00:02:13:09 - 00:02:20:00
Speaker 1
They certainly are. There'll be more details at the end of this episode, so hang around to the end for that. That's right.
00:02:20:02 - 00:02:20:22
Speaker 2
Yes, sir.
00:02:21:00 - 00:02:22:03
Speaker 1
It's a big one that this.
00:02:22:03 - 00:02:27:03
Speaker 2
Is a big one. I mean, they're all we ever said that before. Never know what. Look, you know, this is the.
00:02:27:03 - 00:02:27:16
Speaker 1
Real big one.
00:02:27:17 - 00:02:32:23
Speaker 2
We don't even have to. We don't even have to explain ourselves. Look, boom. Come on. Boom! Roasted. Done. Mic drop.
00:02:33:04 - 00:02:33:11
Speaker 1
Made.
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Speaker 2
Voyage. Now let's explain it, okay?
00:02:35:09 - 00:02:36:23
Speaker 1
Herbie Hancock's baby. Oh.
00:02:37:01 - 00:02:51:08
Speaker 2
I love just touching this, Sumi. I love to touch this album. Yeah, because it just it's just it's so it's a cool album. Tactile. I love LP's, but this just it just takes you to another place, you know, we're going to get to the accouterments of. Yeah, either when.
00:02:51:08 - 00:02:53:20
Speaker 1
We were a great country and we had back of album covers, like.
00:02:54:01 - 00:02:55:19
Speaker 2
I mean, with liner notes, you know.
00:02:55:20 - 00:02:58:16
Speaker 1
We used to make things in this country. Yeah, like Maiden.
00:02:58:16 - 00:03:16:05
Speaker 2
Voyage, but it's just it's like, this is a piece of art, right? You know, and it's not just this, it's the sounds. It doesn't matter if you're listening on Spotify. You don't have to be bougie and have an LP like us. But, I mean, it's just like what this represents and all the sounds and the memories, you know, past, present, as in today and future, I would say
00:03:16:05 - 00:03:25:13
Speaker 2
All right. Adam, I want you to picture something here, okay? Okay. We got a little music, a little time machine. Bubbles going to come down on us. Okay, okay. There we go. Yeah, it's 1963.
00:03:25:14 - 00:03:25:19
Speaker 1
Okay.
00:03:25:20 - 00:03:38:21
Speaker 2
Herbie Hancock is a young man, 22 years old, in New York City. Yeah, yeah. On his way to being an established member of the jazz scene, he starts hearing rumors that Miles Davis. Ever heard of him? Yes. Wants him for his band. Could you.
00:03:38:21 - 00:03:39:08
Speaker 1
Imagine?
00:03:39:12 - 00:03:58:03
Speaker 2
Oh, that would be so awesome. Now, by this time, Miles is obviously already an absolute legend. So Herbie doesn't really believe the rumors he wants to, but he's like, yeah, yeah, right. But one day his phone rings and it's Miles Davis. Hey, on a landline. Remember those? I wonder if you would have had to, like, call it I, you know, I guess you could direct dial.
00:03:58:03 - 00:04:01:13
Speaker 2
Yeah. It'd be like Stafford 7344 is Mr. Herbie.
00:04:01:13 - 00:04:04:01
Speaker 1
Hey, you had to do this junk chunk.
00:04:04:03 - 00:04:19:10
Speaker 2
Dude, I was doing that in the rotary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, so Miles Davis on the phone, he says, come over. He doesn't say what? It's just like, come over to my crib. All right, all right. When Herbie gets there, there's a 17 year old drummer, Tony Williams, already their bass player by the name of Ron Carter.
00:04:19:10 - 00:04:20:03
Speaker 2
Ever heard of him?
00:04:20:04 - 00:04:21:03
Speaker 1
Friend of the pod, right.
00:04:21:03 - 00:04:43:03
Speaker 2
Future Sir Ron Carter. George Coleman, the tenor saxophonist. And Miles Davis. Of course, they were already all there, so they all started playing together. No idle chitchat. Miles was not big on idle chit chat. Just music. But after just a few minutes, Miles says some kind of curse word recording. Turbo. Yeah. And throws his trumpet on the couch and just takes off upstairs.
00:04:43:05 - 00:04:51:06
Speaker 2
He disappears for a while as the band practices in Miles's living room. Turns out Miles was spying on them and listening the whole time from upstairs.
00:04:51:06 - 00:04:53:09
Speaker 1
Davis was such an eccentric, you know, house phones.
00:04:53:09 - 00:04:53:23
Speaker 2
You remember house.
00:04:53:23 - 00:04:55:06
Speaker 1
Phones? Yeah, of course you don't.
00:04:55:06 - 00:04:59:23
Speaker 2
I don't. Oh, you do an intercom system. Yeah, yeah. Intercom. Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
00:05:00:01 - 00:05:04:08
Speaker 1
Well I say on intercom system. Well that was what we had in intercom was.
00:05:04:09 - 00:05:09:07
Speaker 2
Just a little bit of a nefarious. Yeah. So he had some kind of intercom. So he's listening to what they're playing.
00:05:09:07 - 00:05:15:08
Speaker 2
They did this for three days. Just come over, play Miles listening. You know, dropping in a little bit. They practice in Miles's living room.
00:05:15:08 - 00:05:23:03
Speaker 2
Miles comes in and out and disappears for very long stretches. And on the final day, Miles says, on Monday, we got to meet at the record studio.
00:05:23:05 - 00:05:23:16
Speaker 1
Amazing.
00:05:23:18 - 00:05:27:16
Speaker 2
Herbie's like, does that mean I'm in the band? That's totally bad. I would.
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Speaker 1
I know.
00:05:28:08 - 00:05:29:15
Speaker 2
Herbie's like, confident, I like.
00:05:29:15 - 00:05:34:06
Speaker 1
That. Yeah, yeah, but Miles famously never very like transparent about if you're in or out, you know.
00:05:34:06 - 00:05:48:04
Speaker 2
Right. And Miles responds. This is a direct quote from Herbie Hancock. Go for it. You're making the record, motherfucker. There we go. So a few days later, they were in the studio recording this.
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Speaker 3
They.
00:05:53:15 - 00:05:54:11
Speaker 1
Seven steps to heaven.
00:05:54:11 - 00:05:58:04
Speaker 2
Seven steps to heaven. Yeah. Herbie Hancock, Tony Williams.
00:05:58:06 - 00:06:05:03
Speaker 3
Who?
00:06:05:05 - 00:06:11:04
Speaker 2
Great piano song on this. But the foreshadowing. Oh, great drum sound. Hold it.
00:06:11:06 - 00:06:14:21
Speaker 1
So sweet. Columbia. You can have a great piano sound and a great drum sound.
00:06:14:21 - 00:06:15:20
Speaker 2
That's possible.
00:06:15:22 - 00:06:24:01
Speaker 1
I didn't think it was. Yeah. By the way, that's seven steps to Heaven. It's a Victor Feldman composition, right. Who's also on the album? Right on different tracks.
00:06:24:03 - 00:06:42:16
Speaker 2
But not on this track. Not on this track. Herbie. Yeah, they recorded that stuff on the West Coast. This, of course, was in New York and, Yeah, I mean, so really this association with Miles Davis, which would go on be super fruitful for years, even during it's like, why are we talking about Miles Davis? He's not on this record, but this kind of became the backdrop for Herbie.
00:06:42:18 - 00:06:57:10
Speaker 2
He'd already made a couple of records on Blue Note, and between this time of hooking up with Miles and Brian Miles, of course. But then it comes to maiden voyage, sort of his. Yeah. Would we say his classiest aquatic, project ever recorded by Herbie Hancock?
00:06:57:12 - 00:06:58:03
Speaker 1
Definitely.
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Speaker 2
I don't I don't.
00:06:59:15 - 00:07:01:16
Speaker 1
What it is, but there was this aquatic.
00:07:01:16 - 00:07:13:02
Speaker 2
Error where I read you that it was. Yeah, yeah, it was the Age of Aquarius, perhaps. I want to read you because Herbie Hancock. Okay, first of all, shout outs, a liner notes. Can we get back to the days of this, bro? You know what I'm saying?
00:07:13:02 - 00:07:13:21
Speaker 1
You are not lying.
00:07:13:21 - 00:07:28:18
Speaker 2
Look at that. You know, we'll have to get back to musicians learning how to read. That'll be one thing, but, you do want to test yourself. Shots fired? No, I just want to read you the beginning of the the main. That liner notes are great, written by Norah Kelly, but Herbie has his own little thing. At the beginning.
00:07:28:21 - 00:07:52:13
Speaker 2
The see has often stirred the imagination of creative minds involved in all spheres of art. There still exists an element of mystery which surrounds the sea and the living aquatic creatures which provide it with its vital essence. Atlantis, the Sargasso Sea, giant serpents, and mermaids are only a few of the many folkloric mysteries which have evolved through man's experiences with the sea.
00:07:52:13 - 00:07:55:06
Speaker 2
Hold up didn't Herbie grew up in Chicago on Lake Michigan?
00:07:55:06 - 00:07:56:14
Speaker 1
Is he talking about Lake Say?
00:07:56:15 - 00:08:15:22
Speaker 2
He must have read a lot because he wasn't getting all that from the lake. This music attempts to capture its vastness and majesty, the splendor of a seagoing vessel on its maiden voyage, the graceful beauty of the playful dolphins, the constant struggle for survival of even the tiniest sea creatures and the awesome destructive power of the hurricane.
00:08:16:03 - 00:08:19:01
Speaker 2
Nemesis of seamen. That's Herbie Hancock.
00:08:19:03 - 00:08:21:23
Speaker 1
Somebody was just reading Moby Dick, you know what I'm saying?
00:08:22:01 - 00:08:40:17
Speaker 2
Yeah, age 24. But I mean, you know, making that connections, that kind of a setup. I remember when I first, like, got into Herbie and got this record. Wasn't the first time I'd heard Herbie. But like, I remember reading the liner notes and being like, WTF? Like, this was really, you know, this was an atmospheric, this is a concept album which wasn't really being done a whole lot.
00:08:40:17 - 00:08:48:02
Speaker 2
It was a little bit on Blue Note. Yeah, or at least some prestige stuff in a way. Incredible playing. We're going to have a lot of fun with this today. I love this record.
00:08:48:04 - 00:09:03:05
Speaker 1
I also love this record. I have a long history of of, loving this record. This is one of the first jazz albums I ever bought. I think it was in at least the first ten. Yeah, that I bought because, you know, you have friends who were like, check out Herbie Hancock, Chico, Bon voyage, check out Empyrean Isles.
00:09:03:07 - 00:09:23:20
Speaker 1
I love this record. Now, the older I get, the more I've listened to. You know, this is the Miles Davis, quintet without Miles, essentially with Freddie instead of Miles from that era, with George Coleman and Ron Carter and Anthony Williams and, Freddie Hubbard is on the trumpet roll, which I think it's a whole other it's a whole other thing.
00:09:23:20 - 00:09:47:07
Speaker 1
Yes. Just replacing Miles in that chair. Or using someone else with besides Miles, even with the whole band. The same around that trumpet. Freddie Hubbard has such a distinct sound that I think to me, it really makes this album something special. It's like. It's like when you get to hear or it's like when you get to to see, like, one of your favorite, like, baseball players.
00:09:47:07 - 00:10:06:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. You've always liked. And they come to your team, right. And then they're all of a sudden they're like playing first base and they're the cleanup hitter, and you get to watch them. Yeah. At bat for the first time, you're like, what is this going to be like? You know, so I love this. I also am fascinated with the fact that Herbie Call's maiden voyage, the two men voyage, his, the best song that he's ever written.
00:10:06:08 - 00:10:27:18
Speaker 1
He's written so many incredible compositions, incredible, like, dozens and dozens that we could, you know, play off the top of our heads because there's so many of them. They're all part of the jazz canon. And the fact that he picks maiden voyage, which is perhaps his most simple, or at least up there with most simple melodies and chord progressions and forms.
00:10:27:22 - 00:10:30:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. I think says a lot.
00:10:30:11 - 00:10:49:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. And the most, complex thing about it is just played one time and repeated and that's the rhythmic pattern. And we're going to get into sort of the genesis of that. That's the thing that kind of holds it all together, as you say harmonically, very interesting with all these chords. But not a lot of them. The melody, super simple, but beautiful.
00:10:49:01 - 00:10:52:00
Speaker 2
Let's, let's take a, a little bit of a listen to it. That's candor, a little acoustic.
00:10:52:04 - 00:10:53:02
Speaker 1
The first track on the album.
00:10:53:02 - 00:11:06:20
Speaker 2
Yeah. Maiden Voyage.
00:11:06:22 - 00:11:08:14
Speaker 2
Tony's already, like, loosening it up.
00:11:08:15 - 00:11:16:00
Speaker 1
Establishing the looseness is what I was thinking. Exactly.
00:11:16:02 - 00:11:21:22
Speaker 2
The phrasing together.
00:11:22:00 - 00:11:28:06
Speaker 2
Freddie. George Coleman, Freddie Hubbard.
00:11:28:08 - 00:11:35:00
Speaker 1
So relaxed to. It's like they're breathing together. Spot on. Yeah. Phrasing is spot on.
00:11:35:02 - 00:11:39:06
Speaker 2
And then it's got this floating, lilting thing.
00:11:39:08 - 00:11:40:23
Speaker 1
And Herbie and Ron are just holding them. Yeah.
00:11:41:00 - 00:11:46:20
Speaker 2
Rhythm bridge.
00:11:46:22 - 00:11:52:13
Speaker 2
Dynamics.
00:11:52:15 - 00:11:56:21
Speaker 2
Man, I remember you listen to this. Looking at this picture, I was just like.
00:11:56:23 - 00:11:58:17
Speaker 1
It captures you. Oh, the Casa Hoby.
00:11:58:17 - 00:12:04:09
Speaker 2
On Lake Michigan. Yeah, that's Herbie on a hobby Lake, Michigan. Now. Probably could be.
00:12:04:11 - 00:12:09:18
Speaker 1
Herbie on a hobby.
00:12:09:20 - 00:12:19:14
Speaker 2
So that last a second. This is Arbor form. No, no. Oh, it's just like, expansive with.
00:12:19:14 - 00:12:23:02
Speaker 1
That's the great George Coleman. Still with us?
00:12:23:04 - 00:12:25:16
Speaker 2
Yes. I think he's 90 I believe.
00:12:25:16 - 00:12:30:09
Speaker 1
Yeah. So. Right. I think that's right.
00:12:30:09 - 00:12:40:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. He's 29 on this record. Oh.
00:12:40:10 - 00:12:54:01
Speaker 3
Oh.
00:12:54:03 - 00:13:01:11
Speaker 3
Oh.
00:13:01:13 - 00:13:10:09
Speaker 2
And and Herbie's comping. Yeah. Oh.
00:13:10:11 - 00:13:15:10
Speaker 3
I.
00:13:15:12 - 00:13:16:22
Speaker 2
Okay. So great.
00:13:16:22 - 00:13:17:06
Speaker 1
Solo.
00:13:17:10 - 00:13:35:11
Speaker 2
I think this might be we might need to have a new category or a new listing. A little off line listing of perfect solos. I think that that, I think it's not the only way to make a great solo is to do it perfectly. But I think that was kind of a specialty of George Coleman. Now, what do I mean by perfect?
00:13:35:12 - 00:13:55:03
Speaker 2
I mean, there's nothing where you could be like, oh, he tried to do this. He but he didn't quite get it. But he wants to do something else. Cool. Or he kind of like, you know, took him a second to get in there. So there's the danger with the perfect soloing. I've definitely fall into this trap where it's like, antiseptic sounding.
00:13:55:03 - 00:14:10:11
Speaker 2
Yeah. Of course, or it's just, like, simplistic or you're not really. But he's going for stuff. But liberty. All right. But like, there's nothing. There's just like, everything is placed like he crafted this or played the phrase and then really sat and went and wrote for an hour. Let me come up with the next phrase. Now he didn't.
00:14:10:11 - 00:14:29:05
Speaker 2
This was just straight through. And there's actually some alternate takes on here that, you can explore. And he was a master of doing different kinds of solos. Now, did he never make a mistake on other things? Yeah, maybe a little bit here and there. But I mean, George Coleman has been known as like a master and not coming out with a perfectly uninteresting solo.
00:14:29:10 - 00:14:47:12
Speaker 2
It's super interesting. He's going for stuff. He just had that imagination, the agility, his harmonic, knowledge and like ways of manipulating or kind of weaving in and out of on these soft chords with the bebop vocabulary. But it's still being very modern. And then, of course, you know, the intonation, his tone, his phrasing, the dynamics off the charts.
00:14:47:12 - 00:14:51:15
Speaker 1
I mean, just in that brief solo, which I believe is just one chorus, isn't it?
00:14:51:17 - 00:14:52:12
Speaker 2
I think it's I think it's.
00:14:52:12 - 00:15:11:03
Speaker 1
Two, maybe two verses. But he, he's, he shows us like all these different kinds of phrases. Yeah, right. There's like, there's a change up pitch, there's a fastball. I don't know why I'm doing so many baseball metaphors today, but there's all of these different kinds of textures that he's giving us. Yeah. And that solo, it's all very relaxed, all very melodic.
00:15:11:05 - 00:15:18:12
Speaker 1
Very lyrical. Yeah. And just adding to like the atmosphere of what is already a very atmospheric song.
00:15:18:12 - 00:15:19:05
Speaker 2
Yes. Right.
00:15:19:05 - 00:15:41:20
Speaker 1
Yeah. But he's right in there. And then Herbie will play some, you know, choppy chord. Yeah. And then he'll. And then George Coleman will kind of answer with this like oh yeah. Oh yeah. And he'll do these like flourishes and then he'll do this like, you know, love it, love it. Ever. Did it ever do like the straight bebop ish line and then these long tones and with all with an incredible sound, too, by the way, like, yeah, underrated sound on that tenor sax.
00:15:41:20 - 00:16:01:05
Speaker 2
Beautiful sound, beautiful. Gorgeous sound. But it's like his whole playing, like, wouldn't you say his intonation and his sound is kind of perfect too. Yeah, like some people like a knock on it could be that it's too perfect, like, where's the grit or the. But like the way that he improvises and tells a story. That is where the grit is, like that's where the rub is.
00:16:01:05 - 00:16:17:22
Speaker 2
Like, that's where the interest to it is, because it's not just, you know, boring phrases, perfectly executed, one after another, like it all kind of links together. Like you say, it was like this one quarter. Like, that's the best thing. I think it might even be more than two courses. I'm not sure, but it feels like that's what you want a great soul to feel like is one.
00:16:17:22 - 00:16:25:06
Speaker 2
Chorus. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's not like. And they're actually some equivalence on a couple of these tracks here. Some folks might be playing a little long, you know.
00:16:25:06 - 00:16:26:03
Speaker 1
We'll hear about that.
00:16:26:05 - 00:16:44:12
Speaker 2
All these tracks are long. I mean, maiden voyage, this is eight minutes long. Yeah. But I mean, in terms of George Coleman's playing, like, I think every note has its place. It's just perfect. It's just interesting. And that way of playing is not for everybody. Freddie's not a perfect player because he's going for stuff. He's. I mean, he's very, very technically astute, especially on this record.
00:16:44:12 - 00:16:49:22
Speaker 2
So it's not to say that like, he's falling short, it's just different. And that variety, that diversity I think is great.
00:16:49:22 - 00:17:08:10
Speaker 1
But Freddie is always on the on the high, high wire. Yeah. For us he's doing it for us. Like Freddie is is a trapeze artist. He's taking risks. Yeah. He's flying through the air. He's. Yeah, he's going for it. He is a an a like a credible musician. Yeah. Technically. So he's able to pull off almost everything he does.
00:17:08:10 - 00:17:14:04
Speaker 1
But you're right, there's something a little bit, I think, a stroke of genius, of having George Coleman start off this whole album.
00:17:14:06 - 00:17:32:00
Speaker 2
Yes. Yeah. And I mean, the thing is, like, it's crazy because George Coleman's going for stuff, too. It's just he's pulling it all off, you know, he's effortlessly. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so let's just talk a little bit and then we're going to later on get into the into Freddie solo, because I think that might show up as an apex moment from one of.
00:17:32:02 - 00:17:32:23
Speaker 2
It's an incredible.
00:17:32:23 - 00:17:34:13
Speaker 1
Moment. Yeah. Herbie solo too.
00:17:34:13 - 00:17:52:22
Speaker 2
Yeah, but they all work together. You know what I mean? For these eight minutes, like, they're we can pick them apart. And like I'm saying, we all works together. When I listen to them all together. That's your homework to do. The most beautiful, glorious home homework for our dear listeners. But I would say that, like, you take this kind of soul, and then you take Freddie Soul, and then you take Herbie solo.
00:17:53:04 - 00:18:04:04
Speaker 2
It's that's the whole journey. That's the whole aquatic aquatic dream that Herbie puts together. But it really starts from this, this rhythm.
00:18:04:06 - 00:18:05:17
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:18:05:19 - 00:18:27:20
Speaker 2
Boogie good. Came. And that continues throughout. They never leave that. It never goes dank, dank, decaying game. They don't go to a walking thing like this is going throughout it. So yes, there's the harmony too. And just like to nerd out a little bit to to jump back into the nerd nook for a second. Those are all chords, every single chord on here.
00:18:27:20 - 00:18:47:03
Speaker 2
And that just means, you don't have to be able to play piano or whatever to understand this. It just it's that sound. It's that floating. It's not minor. Although it does go to kind of some minor esus type of stuff too. But it's got this nebulous kind of, feel that floats and gives the improviser in the player.
00:18:47:08 - 00:18:54:07
Speaker 2
It's optimistic, but it's a little bit forlorn, unsettled. It's unsettled, but not in a, you know, well, the bridge gets to a little.
00:18:54:07 - 00:18:55:05
Speaker 1
Bit disturbing way.
00:18:55:06 - 00:18:56:05
Speaker 2
Not a little disturbing.
00:18:56:05 - 00:19:04:13
Speaker 1
It's it's like, unsettled in the way that, you know, a, a watercolor is unsettled where there's no defined line.
00:19:04:13 - 00:19:14:12
Speaker 2
Right? It's not. And like, this album cover kind of. Yeah, it's like that. It's a little bit out of focus, but it's beautiful, right? There's a way you could look at it and also be a little sad. Right?
00:19:14:14 - 00:19:17:23
Speaker 1
It's beautiful. But you're also a little bit like, yeah, but what is life really.
00:19:18:02 - 00:19:31:15
Speaker 2
Right. It's not major. It's major ish. Right. But it's just for listeners. It's like harmony. That's the beauty of like harmony. What can these different chords evoke? If we jump into the bridge, it gets a little bit, nope, can't jump there.
00:19:31:17 - 00:19:43:04
Unknown
My bad. Oh.
00:19:43:06 - 00:19:49:05
Speaker 2
So jumping to the bridge.
00:19:49:07 - 00:19:52:10
Speaker 2
Still sucks, right? But getting a little bit.
00:19:52:14 - 00:19:53:15
Speaker 1
All these chords are such.
00:19:53:15 - 00:19:54:11
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:19:54:13 - 00:19:57:17
Speaker 1
But Freddy's note here minus us.
00:19:57:17 - 00:20:00:02
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:20:00:04 - 00:20:09:04
Speaker 2
And the way that, you know, Tony's accenting. But then back to a little optimism. So the C's the C's got a little bit also settled.
00:20:09:04 - 00:20:16:16
Speaker 1
First let's let's not discount that. Like we've got these sort of unsettled watercolor kind of chords. But the melody itself is just 5511.
00:20:16:16 - 00:20:17:06
Speaker 2
Right.
00:20:17:08 - 00:20:24:05
Speaker 1
It's like the fundamental tones of the key. Yeah. But A51 like that, a lot of
00:20:24:06 - 00:20:25:14
Speaker 3
Doo doo doo woo.
00:20:25:14 - 00:20:26:19
Speaker 1
Right. Which is the five of the next.
00:20:27:00 - 00:20:28:08
Speaker 2
Exactly. It's like.
00:20:28:10 - 00:20:44:13
Speaker 1
Really grounds it, which is sometimes it's the opposite where you just got like the one chord and the melodies do an interesting stuff on the nine or the, you know, these, like, colorful tones of the scale. But this is the opposite. The melody is like on the one right? And the chords themselves are these ambiguous.
00:20:44:13 - 00:20:59:23
Speaker 2
So it's a very well balanced song. It's like one of Herbie's as we talk about simplest songs, like his biggest hit song. Standards that people love to play are super simple. But when you look at the architecture and stuff like, this is great. Jazz for musicians and for the masses, this.
00:20:59:23 - 00:21:06:16
Speaker 1
Will always be in my repertoire. And I know it's like it's can be kind of like a a drag out of jam session to call me in voyage.
00:21:06:16 - 00:21:08:17
Speaker 2
Because it can't get out of hand. I think you.
00:21:08:17 - 00:21:10:07
Speaker 1
Can have people doing ten choruses of this.
00:21:10:07 - 00:21:11:20
Speaker 2
And people will be messing it up because people don't.
00:21:11:20 - 00:21:22:07
Speaker 1
Know how to treat it sometimes, like it's like it's like, so what? Or Mr. PC or sorry, no impressions like that. Yeah. The modal tunes, where it's like, if you don't know what you're doing.
00:21:22:09 - 00:21:41:07
Speaker 2
Right, keep it short. Right? But it looks like on the lead, it looks so easy that a lot of people play it and like the diverging, you know, the melodies in unison between trumpet and saxophone on the sections. It's the ABBA form. But the bridge, they diverge, right? That's so important. And people don't do that in jam sessions.
00:21:41:07 - 00:21:50:05
Speaker 2
They're just like playing it together, whatever. That's when you have a simple tune like this, the details matter. No, there's not a lot of them. You know what I mean, right? No. Oh, I like that. You got dogmatic.
00:21:50:06 - 00:22:00:22
Speaker 1
I occasionally do. I also take the time to learn Herbie's voicings here. They're not complicated. They're easy to hear. You know, piano sounds not the greatest, as we'll talk about later. Oh, really? But you can transcribe these voicings.
00:22:01:02 - 00:22:19:02
Speaker 2
That's right. So. Okay. This tune came to Herbie in January of 65 on a flight to Los Angeles. He was actually going out, to record with the Miles Davis Quintet. They were they would become ESP, one of their great kind of early was sort of beginning of the mid period of this great quintet with Wayne Shorter on saxophone.
00:22:19:02 - 00:22:46:02
Speaker 2
Now, no longer George Coleman, and they had some gigs and, you know, they were going to kind of try out some of this new music. And Miles told everybody in the band bringing the tunes that you have. Right. And so when he was on the the plane, he had this idea for a tune, and it was based around this rhythm with a song like Dun dun Dun, and he's on the plane and he's like, oh, I'm going to write it down on it now.
00:22:46:03 - 00:22:58:06
Speaker 2
I love that rhythm. That's it. He like, pictured the whole thing. He wrote it down. He's like, oh, this is gonna be great. Then he went to sleep and then he got up off the flight. He was all excited and then he got to the studio. Then he was like, where's the, the rhythm? And he couldn't remember the rhythm.
00:22:58:06 - 00:23:01:18
Speaker 2
Oh no. And he's like, oh, well, but it's Herbie Hancock. He's got a lot of really good ideas.
00:23:01:21 - 00:23:03:08
Speaker 1
He's like another idea, like, oh yeah.
00:23:03:08 - 00:23:19:14
Speaker 2
Exactly. So that's part of the reason they didn't record the two that's at that session. But a couple months later, that was January. In March they did record it. And the way that he remembered it was they did a tune called 80. What was it called? 81. Yeah, yeah, written by Ron Carter. He did bring it to the session.
00:23:19:16 - 00:23:27:07
Speaker 2
And towards the end of that track. So this is like this is like the end of the melody.
00:23:27:09 - 00:23:29:17
Speaker 1
To killing him. Yeah.
00:23:29:19 - 00:23:35:19
Speaker 2
You know, like a lot of stuff during this period that was kind of this nebulous fade out where they just bothered with the rhythm section.
00:23:35:21 - 00:23:48:17
Speaker 1
Listen to what Ron Carter's doing here to sound familiar. Yeah.
00:23:48:19 - 00:23:55:13
Speaker 1
Doom doom doom doom doom doom doom. But,
00:23:55:15 - 00:24:11:13
Speaker 2
Yeah. So when they went into this and Herbie's playing that rhythm, he was like, oh, that's the rhythm. But he still wasn't sure what it was from. So apparently he went in there listening back and he's like, oh, that's the tune I left on the airplane. And so then he came up with. But then even with that, it was just, I wonder what.
00:24:11:13 - 00:24:13:01
Speaker 1
Ron Carter would say about that.
00:24:13:03 - 00:24:16:02
Speaker 2
I wrote that too, though. Well, he definitely wrote the bass. I mean, you can hear him, but.
00:24:16:08 - 00:24:36:19
Speaker 1
I just want to take a brief detour on Maestro Ron Carter for a second, because just hearing that and realizing how much of mean voyage is coming out of Ron's bass in 81, of course. And how many countless bass lines have we talked about this where Ron is basically writing some of the most memorable parts? Yeah, of these compositions in the studio for these guys, for everybody.
00:24:36:19 - 00:24:38:01
Speaker 1
Right, that he's playing with.
00:24:38:05 - 00:24:49:20
Speaker 2
Well, remember how we first met Mr. Ron Carter was when we did if we did a, podcast about the greatest bass lines of all time and somehow like 3 or 4 of the top seven happened to be like we did.
00:24:49:21 - 00:24:50:14
Speaker 1
Four of seven.
00:24:50:15 - 00:24:50:22
Speaker 2
Fourths.
00:24:50:23 - 00:24:52:02
Speaker 1
Were Ron Carter bass, Ryan.
00:24:52:02 - 00:24:54:12
Speaker 2
Carter played the bass line and probably creating many of those as well.
00:24:54:12 - 00:25:09:13
Speaker 1
But this is how how impactful a great bass line can be to your song. And just listen to main voice and then listening to that ending of 81. Yeah, it's Herbie's playing that rhythm, but you immediately hear Ron Carter go like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, like a very similar thing he's going to do on maiden voyage.
00:25:09:13 - 00:25:24:07
Speaker 1
But I'm just always blown away by how much of an impact that musician, specifically Ron Carter, has had on all the music he's been a part of and oftentimes doesn't. He's not going to get the glory right, as in the bass chair that other musicians might. But he's so important.
00:25:24:09 - 00:25:35:19
Speaker 2
Right? So the other part of this, with the melody and being so simple, they came together. So he had that rhythm, he had the sass kind of thing. He was commissioned to write a commercial for Fabergé. Remember them? Brut by Faberge.
00:25:35:20 - 00:25:36:17
Speaker 1
Faberge eggs?
00:25:36:17 - 00:25:36:23
Speaker 2
No.
00:25:36:23 - 00:25:38:05
Speaker 1
Faberge Cologne. Okay.
00:25:38:07 - 00:25:58:07
Speaker 2
Right, right. Oh, the Cologne. Right. And, you know, so he knew it had to be something really simple melodically, but he didn't want it. And he knew he couldn't do, like, doing, like, jazzy, swingy stuff or even, like, kind of do that cognac. So he wanted to come up with some sort of a groove. So that was really the impetus for it, for the maiden voyage groove.
00:25:58:12 - 00:26:02:06
Speaker 2
And then to put it for a commercial. Yes, it was for a commercial originally written, you.
00:26:02:06 - 00:26:03:06
Speaker 1
Know, to snobby out there.
00:26:03:06 - 00:26:09:11
Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Jazz musicians, you know, don't, don't like when you get the call for something. Don't be like, I'm too good for that.
00:26:09:11 - 00:26:15:12
Speaker 1
I'm just saying, Herbie's writing like he's 24 years old. Artistic classics here for Faberge, for Faberge Cologne.
00:26:15:12 - 00:26:24:08
Speaker 2
And it was a good ask a loan probably, though back then probably there's all sorts of stuff that would give you rashes. But yeah, but he'd give you a hook, a hook ups to hook ups of rashes smell.
00:26:24:08 - 00:26:27:02
Speaker 1
Great with like palm oil cigarets. And.
00:26:27:04 - 00:26:41:20
Speaker 2
What a time. Oh, we were both born in the 70s, by the way. We don't know. We're talking about, but the idea was, yes, we had the melody, and then he had that other kind of bridge part, but, you know, the commercial stuff. Are they even going to go there? But he couldn't figure out how to finish the tune.
00:26:41:22 - 00:27:01:17
Speaker 2
And so, like the night before the recording session, or before it was due, he couldn't wrap his head around, how to end the song. He got frustrated and gave up and went to bed. His then girlfriend about a girl girlfriend, Gigi, who's he's been married to shortly thereafter, been together for many years. Incredible woman. His partner.
00:27:01:18 - 00:27:17:07
Speaker 2
She kicked him out of bed because she was like, did you finish it? And he's like, now I figured out, like, she's like, no, no, no, go finish the song, granny. Yeah. Get it together. So begrudgingly, he went back to the piano. Suddenly it struck him. The first two chords should be the last two chords. And that's how you got to that arbor form.
00:27:17:07 - 00:27:30:07
Speaker 2
Beautiful balance with it, you know, and it kind of. And it sort of rolls together. And that's why it feels like you don't have to know the arbor form, but that's why it feels like it's never ending. Right. The whole thing. So that's it.
00:27:30:09 - 00:27:31:21
Speaker 1
Amazing. Yeah. Amazing.
00:27:31:21 - 00:27:38:17
Speaker 2
In fact, they even called it before he came up with the whole concept. For the record, maiden Voyage. They just called it TV jingle. That was how what he named it.
00:27:38:19 - 00:27:43:08
Speaker 1
So we've got for the second track, Peter, we've got another nautical themed tune.
00:27:43:08 - 00:27:43:22
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:27:44:00 - 00:27:51:15
Speaker 1
In fact, we've got a couple here on this album, but we've got I have The Hurricane. Now, this to me is like, this is the burner.
00:27:51:17 - 00:27:52:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, this is the burner.
00:27:52:14 - 00:28:07:05
Speaker 1
For the album. And this is a, this got some interesting nerd note stuff in it too, that our friend Jeffrey Keyser has talked about with some of those voicings that Herbie plays the triple diminished voicing, right as it's called. Right. But this is a also a standard. This is something you got to know.
00:28:07:08 - 00:28:16:23
Speaker 2
This is standard. And this is good because people don't call this jam sessions if they can't really play because it's so hard. It's hard. Yeah. And it's actually a minor blues, but it's got a vibe to it.
00:28:17:01 - 00:28:22:01
Speaker 1
I mean you got to know the part to play it. Yeah.
00:28:22:03 - 00:28:23:07
Speaker 1
That's that triple diminished chord.
00:28:23:12 - 00:28:43:00
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:28:43:02 - 00:28:43:16
Speaker 1
Lock in.
00:28:43:17 - 00:28:53:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. Swinging.
00:28:53:02 - 00:28:56:05
Speaker 1
So this is just Tony dancing on that, right, Tony?
00:28:56:09 - 00:29:04:10
Speaker 2
And the way Freddy started that. So that whole first chorus was kind of like. I'm just. I'm not really in it yet. I'm just. I'm warming up into it, and he starts building like he's stacking.
00:29:04:10 - 00:29:07:11
Speaker 1
You guys just get that swing together. Yeah I'm going to get it on.
00:29:07:11 - 00:29:17:02
Speaker 2
Yeah okay. So we're going to just check out a little bit because you were talking about Herbie's voicings.
00:29:17:04 - 00:29:32:00
Speaker 1
Oh yeah I love where this guy.
00:29:32:02 - 00:29:36:21
Speaker 1
Those are so crunchy. Great. Oh, man. But beautiful voice. Yeah. So balance is incredible on the chord.
00:29:36:21 - 00:29:41:09
Speaker 2
And then we talked about Tony swinging dancing right?
00:29:41:11 - 00:29:51:04
Speaker 1
I mean, yeah. I can't think of a more influential okay symbol than Tony Williams.
00:29:51:04 - 00:30:02:05
Speaker 2
Right. Simple. Great. Hear the bass drum. Boom. So soft. Little feather. Yeah.
00:30:02:07 - 00:30:03:02
Speaker 1
That's true.
00:30:03:04 - 00:30:12:06
Speaker 2
Man. The hook up of Tony Williams and Ron Carter on this kind of swing. Of course doing all the time with Miles Davis Quintet during this period. But check that out.
00:30:12:07 - 00:30:14:18
Speaker 1
Oh yeah. The greatest the greatest battery.
00:30:14:22 - 00:30:18:07
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:30:18:09 - 00:30:29:23
Speaker 2
Oh dropping bombs. Oh. Spitting fire. Yeah.
00:30:30:01 - 00:30:39:17
Speaker 2
The swag swag. The swagger. He's got swag on.
00:30:39:19 - 00:30:40:10
Speaker 1
What a sound.
00:30:40:10 - 00:30:50:04
Speaker 2
Oh, bit. Oh. Come on now.
00:30:50:06 - 00:30:57:12
Unknown
Oh.
00:31:00:19 - 00:31:03:12
Unknown
Oh.
00:31:03:14 - 00:31:09:20
Speaker 2
So all the pieces come together, right?
00:31:09:22 - 00:31:21:05
Speaker 2
Oh, Freddie. Right to George.
00:31:21:06 - 00:31:38:19
Speaker 2
George Coleman, such a great player. Catch him while you can. He's still out here doing his thing incredibly, you know, 90 years old. So this was interesting because on this record, George Coleman is, though, is the old guy. He's 29. Everybody's in their 20s on this record except for one Tony Williams. He's 19.
00:31:38:19 - 00:31:40:06
Speaker 1
Stupid. Yeah. So crazy.
00:31:40:06 - 00:31:55:04
Speaker 2
Herbie's 24, Ron Carter's 27, George Coleman 29. Freddy's 26. So to put it in perspective, Miles Davis, who's kind of looming over this whole record in this whole band, 38 years old. So almost like a different generation, certainly from Tony, you know what I mean?
00:31:55:06 - 00:32:00:07
Speaker 1
That's really interesting. And it's great that you brought him Miles on this track specifically because this is, I think, the most miles.
00:32:00:09 - 00:32:00:18
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:32:00:23 - 00:32:02:11
Speaker 1
You know, plug nickel style.
00:32:02:11 - 00:32:03:01
Speaker 2
Exactly.
00:32:03:01 - 00:32:03:17
Speaker 1
Track on the.
00:32:03:22 - 00:32:07:03
Speaker 2
Album. But how different Freddie plays from from how Miles plays it's.
00:32:07:05 - 00:32:17:20
Speaker 1
The sound itself is like almost a different instrument. Right. And then, of course, like all of Freddie's language is completely it's a whole different approach than what Miles does. Right? And it's just beautiful. Really beautiful.
00:32:17:23 - 00:32:34:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. All right, so let's go on and just listen to a little bit. I mean, this whole record, it's just like the tracks are long. Yeah, but they're so well-balanced. Tracks three and four are kind of known as the weird tracks, and a lot of people skip over them. But I think if you have a.
00:32:34:20 - 00:32:36:02
Speaker 1
You know what you're talking.
00:32:36:04 - 00:32:50:03
Speaker 2
Well, look, this is the thing this the, they, they kind of bridge between the A side and the B side. And so maiden voyage, the first track and Dolphin Dance, the last track. Incredible. The second track, like, those are like the standards. Those are the most, I think, listener friendly. Wouldn't you.
00:32:50:03 - 00:33:07:01
Speaker 1
Say? 100%. Yeah. Maiden voyage is like the first Herbie Hancock song most people learn besides maybe Watermelon Man or Chameleon. Yeah, but then Dolphin Dance is like once you learn how to sort of like as a musician, when you're learning how to navigate changes. Yeah, that's the one the musicians love. Yeah. Because it's, there's a lot of meat to sink your teeth into a dolphin dance.
00:33:07:02 - 00:33:07:21
Speaker 1
It's one here in a minute.
00:33:07:21 - 00:33:35:20
Speaker 2
Absolutely. It's one of those tunes that teaches you a lot just to learn about how to and how to improvise. But the, the two interior tracks, Little One and Survival of the fittest, are really cool. They're really weird. They're really long. I mean, Survival of fitness is over ten minutes. One is like nine minutes long, but Little one is interesting because they recorded this in January of 65 on ESP with Miles Davis with this exact same group, except without the horn player.
00:33:35:20 - 00:34:11:05
Speaker 2
Well, with different horn players Miles Davis and Wayne Shorter instead of George Coleman and Freddie Hubbard. So let's just listen to a little bit first of that version, because two months later they recorded it on this record with this band. So this is a little one from Miles's ESP, of course, Herbie as well.
00:34:11:07 - 00:34:19:09
Speaker 2
He.
00:34:19:11 - 00:34:25:07
Speaker 2
Ron Carter driving the train. Okay, so that's January.
00:34:25:09 - 00:34:26:02
Speaker 1
This is May.
00:34:26:02 - 00:34:28:07
Speaker 2
This is may, not March.
00:34:28:07 - 00:34:35:03
Speaker 1
March.
00:34:35:05 - 00:34:38:06
Speaker 1
Trestles. Credible choice.
00:34:38:08 - 00:34:45:11
Unknown
And.
00:34:49:12 - 00:34:56:20
Unknown
He.
00:34:57:22 - 00:35:17:16
Speaker 2
Freddie, this is a different way of playing it, but it's it's the same tune, right? It's the same spirit. Tony.
00:35:17:18 - 00:35:36:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. So, like, I remember when I first heard this, too, it was always like, you know, with the aquatic thing. It was like. I think I was pictured, like, being at the bottom of the ocean. Like where it's just totally pitch black, and there's maybe some little glistening, fluorescent fish that ate something radioactive for Steve Zissou. Yeah, yeah.
00:35:36:23 - 00:35:51:22
Speaker 2
You know, but I mean, this is such an atmospheric record. It's such a cool thing. So I encourage everybody, you know, at least when you have some time, don't skip over Little One. And survival of the fittest is fantastic. It's got let me just I mean, I know this wasn't on the. Original playlist, but.
00:35:52:00 - 00:35:52:17
Speaker 1
It's pretty killing.
00:35:52:18 - 00:35:58:20
Speaker 2
Oh, let's kill me.
00:35:58:22 - 00:36:05:13
Speaker 2
And we used to do like we used to do,
00:36:05:15 - 00:36:09:13
Speaker 2
Who? The MVP of the record. Yeah. Carter, I'm sorry to think is the record. It's okay.
00:36:09:15 - 00:36:11:09
Speaker 1
It's Ron Carter on most things Ron Carter song.
00:36:11:10 - 00:36:19:16
Speaker 2
There's so much great crazy Tony stuff on here all the time. I mean, he's 19 years old. This is crazy.
00:36:19:18 - 00:36:36:09
Speaker 1
So awesome. Definitely worth a listen. It's not like a like, you don't have to. Oh, man. It's not a skippable track by any means. This is long and takes it into some very like main voyage is a Cologne ad. Yeah. And this is not.
00:36:36:11 - 00:36:55:18
Speaker 2
I know, and that's Herbie Hancock, right. He's taking you on a journey, you know. So that's the fourth track. That's the first track on the second side as well, which is super interesting. And that all kind of leads us to dolphin Dance, which, you know, like as you said, is probably the song that musicians probably most love and maybe just general listeners as well.
00:36:55:18 - 00:37:08:01
Speaker 2
It's so beautiful. Interesting fact that that you brought up, was that the inspiration for this song? And I think this was from his biography. He certainly has talked about this was bases shiny stockings. Let's take a listen to.
00:37:08:01 - 00:37:13:00
Speaker 1
That kind of hear it.
00:37:13:02 - 00:37:22:05
Speaker 1
Imagine there wasn't functional as much functional harmony here. Right. It went into some different places.
00:37:22:07 - 00:37:34:19
Speaker 2
This is 1957, you know, so Herbie would have been a teenager.
00:37:34:21 - 00:37:35:13
Speaker 2
But maybe this part.
00:37:35:13 - 00:37:38:09
Speaker 1
Here is specifically.
00:37:38:11 - 00:37:43:10
Speaker 2
This. Right. And then up, up whole step up a whole step. Right. Oh.
00:37:43:12 - 00:37:58:02
Speaker 1
Yeah. Which is just like A36 in this. But then they changed keys. Right. So that I think is the dolphin dance inspiration. But I think I think you're right. And I think dolphin Dance is the track from this. I mean Maiden Voyage, I might have just switched my desert islands to because.
00:37:59:00 - 00:38:11:01
Speaker 1
Dominance. I think I know Herbie says Maiden Voyage is his favorite of his compositions, but I think Dolphin Dance overall might be my favorite Herbie Hancock composition. I think it's brilliant melody. I think it's a very unique form.
00:38:11:01 - 00:38:20:04
Speaker 2
Very unique form, very well balanced. Got some weird stuff in there, but it's got some beautiful, like when I say, well, it's got some just, just beautiful. We're going to listen. The melody is gorgeous, right? But it gets.
00:38:20:04 - 00:38:21:01
Speaker 1
Weird. It does get.
00:38:21:01 - 00:38:26:23
Speaker 2
Weird. Gets a little weird. Let's check it out.
00:38:27:01 - 00:38:42:08
Speaker 2
Going back to some source, jumping back to the first track. From.
00:38:42:10 - 00:38:47:09
Speaker 2
It's going on a journey.
00:38:47:11 - 00:39:02:07
Speaker 2
That's some iconic comping right there.
00:39:02:09 - 00:39:13:09
Speaker 2
Having these big pedal point sections in the middle of the tune going down a whole step.
00:39:13:11 - 00:39:19:17
Speaker 3
On the hop up.
00:39:19:18 - 00:39:22:00
Speaker 1
Up again. That's where the shiny stockings.
00:39:22:00 - 00:39:39:02
Speaker 2
Right? There. In octaves. Right. The melody. Yeah. Oh, this is the way they phrase the melody together left and right. Here's the weird part.
00:39:39:04 - 00:39:39:22
Speaker 3
Whoa.
00:39:40:00 - 00:39:40:15
Speaker 1
What is that caught?
00:39:40:16 - 00:39:47:16
Speaker 2
I don't.
00:39:47:18 - 00:40:08:10
Speaker 2
And then I was, like, cocky like that. Yeah. Swinging doo dah. Oh, he's playing swag deliciously right now in Swahili. Like he could just see, you know, I'm ready to build a better. This soul, maybe a perfect soul up until a certain point.
00:40:08:12 - 00:40:10:16
Speaker 1
Oh, let's talk about it.
00:40:10:18 - 00:40:13:14
Speaker 2
I mean, so,
00:40:13:16 - 00:40:16:08
Speaker 1
Are you trying to send Freddie to Berklee College of Music right now?
00:40:16:10 - 00:40:20:18
Speaker 2
No, I just I feel like he took an extra course. Perhaps, but I don't know. This is a long form to.
00:40:20:18 - 00:40:38:14
Speaker 1
It is a long. Oh, Herbie's comping throughout. This is a master. So good.
00:40:38:16 - 00:40:43:17
Unknown
I.
00:40:43:19 - 00:40:45:22
Unknown
I don't know.
00:40:46:00 - 00:40:56:06
Speaker 2
This stuff at the end. Oh, that's some iconic.
00:40:56:07 - 00:41:05:02
Speaker 1
It's hard when I. When I'm playing the song and soloing to not trying to match Freddie's energy. I know, like, when it comes back around, I always want to do one of those like.
00:41:05:04 - 00:41:08:11
Speaker 2
Another kind of pressure.
00:41:15:01 - 00:41:33:21
Speaker 2
I. Yeah. Anyway, Freddie play. I shouldn't have said that in terms of, but like, I actually it could have ended at the, at the first course, but then Freddie just played. He's playing great stuff. Like like I say like these tracks are long. Yeah. You know what I mean. But but they're like, the form is long, the tracks are long, but the playing is, it's such a high level.
00:41:33:21 - 00:41:37:23
Speaker 2
Like if you're in the right mood to be listening to it in this way, it's so rewarding.
00:41:38:01 - 00:41:42:08
Speaker 1
Let's get into some categories here. So desert Island track for sure.
00:41:42:10 - 00:41:59:09
Speaker 2
Well, I've got this one. I've got Dolphin Dance, because if I'm on it, if I'm on a desert island, some little dolphins dancing by. This is certainly evocative. Evocative of that. I think the playing is great. It's so beautiful. Like, you know, is it the most challenging stuff on here? Maybe not. Is it even the most beautiful and simple?
00:41:59:09 - 00:42:00:06
Speaker 2
Maybe that's maiden voyage.
00:42:00:06 - 00:42:00:17
Speaker 1
It's a great.
00:42:00:17 - 00:42:02:19
Speaker 2
But I mean, this is the one that's like, I can just.
00:42:02:19 - 00:42:10:17
Speaker 1
Listen to it. I agree, I had maiden voyage, but I think after listening to both here today, I'm going to switch it to Dolphin Dance and I reserve the right to change my mind.
00:42:10:19 - 00:42:11:19
Speaker 2
I mean, you can't go wrong with.
00:42:11:19 - 00:42:14:14
Speaker 1
Either one of those. What's your apex moment for this?
00:42:14:16 - 00:42:36:18
Speaker 2
I think it's Freddie on maiden voyage. And this particular part, Let's see. Can I say, okay, so in his solo, there's a bunch of great stuff like the Freddie Hubbard solo. And I apologize for jumping to the middle, but I want to get right to the Apex Monk. He's already gone up high.
00:42:36:19 - 00:42:39:02
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's already come down a little bit. Yeah.
00:42:39:04 - 00:42:43:03
Speaker 2
And you think, oh, there's no more left, right? Oh, well, percolating.
00:42:43:03 - 00:42:44:07
Speaker 1
Freddie's always got something to say, but.
00:42:44:07 - 00:42:45:06
Speaker 2
This next part.
00:42:45:08 - 00:42:51:16
Speaker 1
Oh, this is. Yeah, yeah.
00:42:51:18 - 00:42:57:13
Speaker 2
And right here.
00:42:57:15 - 00:43:00:11
Speaker 2
And then he's just he's like he's talking. He's like I.
00:43:00:11 - 00:43:07:01
Speaker 1
Gotcha, he's shouting and he's talking.
00:43:07:03 - 00:43:09:09
Speaker 2
Oh.
00:43:09:11 - 00:43:13:03
Speaker 1
I feel like my uncle just told me a story. Yeah. You know.
00:43:13:05 - 00:43:18:05
Speaker 2
So great. So great. Yeah. So to me, that's that's kind of the one, you know, I stop.
00:43:18:07 - 00:43:41:19
Speaker 1
I have, I've just realized that we haven't listened to, single Herbie Hancock solo yet on this podcast. But my apex moment is actually Herbie's second chorus, in Dolphin dance. And I wonder if we could just. We might. Yeah, we might listen to all of that solo piano solo. But his second chorus, specifically, I think, is where the whole album apex is for.
00:43:41:19 - 00:43:44:21
Speaker 2
Yeah, let's get to it.
00:43:44:23 - 00:43:48:23
Speaker 1
I. And of George Coleman solo here.
00:43:49:01 - 00:43:53:02
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:43:53:04 - 00:44:03:00
Speaker 2
These last two pedal points. Down.
00:44:03:02 - 00:44:10:18
Speaker 2
George ended a little early. Oh.
00:44:10:20 - 00:44:32:18
Speaker 1
So. What I love about Herbie's playing on this album and every Herbie album is, it's. But especially his own albums. He's so connected with his compositions. Yes. He's plays very thematically. Yes. You're going to hear the tune in his improvization Deeply connected.
00:44:32:18 - 00:44:40:19
Speaker 2
This is also great. Piano and the sound not so great, but pianist.
00:44:40:21 - 00:44:47:18
Speaker 3
Oh.
00:44:47:20 - 00:44:56:06
Speaker 1
I mean, this is a great chorus, but I think it apex it does at the start of the next. Yeah.
00:44:56:08 - 00:45:00:10
Speaker 2
Oh.
00:45:00:12 - 00:45:09:20
Speaker 1
At the pedal point now the bass is stand on one note while the chords change.
00:45:09:22 - 00:45:18:09
Speaker 1
And now we're going back for another chorus. And this is the anniversary.
00:45:18:11 - 00:45:24:22
Speaker 3
Oh.
00:45:25:00 - 00:45:26:10
Speaker 2
So much classic Herbie vocab.
00:45:26:11 - 00:45:32:04
Speaker 1
So swinging this.
00:45:32:06 - 00:45:36:06
Speaker 2
Oh, and that, that just gives Toni license back and forth.
00:45:36:08 - 00:45:46:01
Speaker 3
You said Lucy. Yep.
00:45:46:03 - 00:45:53:11
Speaker 1
He just knows the ins and outs of this form, so. Well, yeah.
00:45:53:13 - 00:46:15:04
Speaker 2
Man, it's like waves coming in, you know? They know how to build, and they're not afraid of going to just one apex moment. I think Freddie really set the tone for it on here, too. Yeah. So incredible. I think that solo I would I would have put that as the best solo on this record and maybe one of Herbie's greatest solos of all time.
00:46:15:06 - 00:46:39:22
Speaker 2
Yeah. Had it not been for the piano song. And we're going to talk about that in a second. And that doesn't take away, I'm just saying, like how it's recorded, not how it's recorded, like how it ends up being. It's so his playing is so amazing that it's still there. And I don't want to like, put him want want more on this or anything, but I do I do feel like the, the quality of the sound of it and how it's captured and presented on the recording does is a big part of the solo, you know what I mean?
00:46:40:00 - 00:46:49:16
Speaker 2
Like, he's playing, I mean, Herbie did everything he could do, and I know some people love that sound, but to me, that keeps it from getting to that point, because I'm a pianist, I can imagine I I've heard Herbie live.
00:46:49:17 - 00:46:50:02
Speaker 1
Let's talk.
00:46:50:02 - 00:46:51:07
Speaker 2
About it. I can fill in the blanks.
00:46:51:07 - 00:47:11:18
Speaker 1
So this is a I don't want to have to a Rudy Van Gelder recording. Yeah. And Rudy Van Gelder recordings notoriously have what I call the hollow piano sound. Yeah. There's this, like, curve somewhere in the EQ. Yeah, where they're taking out a big bunch of the meat of the piano. Yeah. And so you get this sound on the piano that sounds like, I don't know, it sounds like water drops plunking.
00:47:11:18 - 00:47:28:02
Speaker 1
Yeah. Or like, it's like a it's like there's a, there's like a glass bell around the piano or something. There's a weird it's a weird effect that happens specifically on Rudy Van Gelder recordings. Yeah. Now he does that to make way for things like the bass and the drums. And those sounds sound great.
00:47:28:04 - 00:47:40:02
Speaker 2
I mean, on what we just heard, like if the piano had sounded as good of, as accurate and as full as the drums on here, that would have been some of the most is still some of the most amazing playing. I mean, it's not like it's that bad that it ruins. It's not.
00:47:40:02 - 00:48:02:20
Speaker 1
But especially in this time, before anything digital, you have this like sonic spectrum of sound, and I'm not the person to go on a deep dive on this, but you do have to make compromises if you want to bring one instrument out or the other because they're in, they're in, sonic, competition. Competition. That's right. So they'll be in regions in the same area where they're kind of canceling each other out.
00:48:02:20 - 00:48:20:23
Speaker 1
So oftentimes you'll EQ one or the other, or you can do panning or you can do different things in the mix. But in this case, Rudy Van Gelder, the piano also just has all of these overtones that are swirling around all the time. So it's a very, it takes up a lot of sonic ground. And so Rudy Van Gelder solution was to like knock out a bunch of, yeah, full parts.
00:48:20:23 - 00:48:22:02
Speaker 1
And I know you.
00:48:22:06 - 00:48:33:01
Speaker 2
I just don't think that's the solution. And, I mean, I think you have records like, this is what keeps some of these records from being on that, like better than Kobe to me, in a way, is because of the piano sound, because I like Kobe.
00:48:33:01 - 00:48:36:06
Speaker 1
Sound six years before this. Yeah. Incredible.
00:48:36:06 - 00:48:57:06
Speaker 2
Yeah. Everything. And you can't say, oh, well, they had to compromise on drums. So anyway, it's not a look. It's not that huge of a deal. But to me it's just it's shocking. Like how great. That's the thing. Like when you have the sound so well dialed in. I mean, like that Tony sound crazy that, you know, George Coleman and Freddie Hubbard, they've got he's got them heavy panned left and right, but so beautifully.
00:48:57:06 - 00:49:19:15
Speaker 2
It's like when you're hitting that a tier S tier. What's that. What's the highest S tier. Yes, sir. Boomer. Boomer okay. Boomer S tier on everything else. Like if you're just kind of like mid on everything, then this piano sound would be fine. But it's like it's it's, it's amplified, to me, a little bit of the deficiencies by how great he nailed everything else.
00:49:19:15 - 00:49:25:17
Speaker 1
And it's interesting because it's very divisive. A lot of people love the sound. Yeah, a lot of like, search for this sound to get like that. It's a.
00:49:25:23 - 00:49:26:17
Speaker 2
Folk sound, for.
00:49:26:17 - 00:49:44:13
Speaker 1
Sure. It's a very specific. I think once a sound has been around for a long and it's on such great music. Yeah, like these classic albums. That's right. It just becomes like, oh, that's the sound of classic Blue Note album, right? The classic Van Gelder recordings. And we should pay respect to how how good those albums are. And people just search for that sound.
00:49:44:13 - 00:49:49:07
Speaker 1
But you're right, it's not the best. Yeah, it's not the greatest representation, especially on the pianist album.
00:49:49:09 - 00:49:51:03
Speaker 2
I know, you know, I know, yeah.
00:49:51:08 - 00:49:52:01
Speaker 1
Okay. Bespoke and.
00:49:52:02 - 00:49:54:14
Speaker 2
Incredible solo. Good, good good pick on that.
00:49:54:16 - 00:49:56:20
Speaker 1
Bespoke Spotify playlist. What do you got?
00:49:56:22 - 00:49:59:00
Speaker 2
Jazz. Aquatic jazz or aquatic jazz?
00:49:59:00 - 00:49:59:23
Speaker 1
The jazz aquatic.
00:49:59:23 - 00:50:01:09
Speaker 2
Yeah. I don't know what else would be on that play.
00:50:01:09 - 00:50:05:17
Speaker 1
Herbie Zissou. Okay, great. I have hollow ass pianos.
00:50:05:18 - 00:50:10:14
Speaker 2
Actually, that is not what you have. Do you want a what? I have wack ass piano style, I piano.
00:50:10:16 - 00:50:10:19
Speaker 1
Oh, are.
00:50:10:19 - 00:50:12:11
Speaker 2
You the one?
00:50:12:13 - 00:50:13:21
Speaker 1
Oh. Good. What's up next?
00:50:14:02 - 00:50:15:21
Speaker 2
I mean, Empyrean Isles, the record.
00:50:15:21 - 00:50:17:03
Speaker 1
Before this, I said I have to.
00:50:17:07 - 00:50:18:16
Speaker 2
Say that they record a couple months.
00:50:18:16 - 00:50:19:13
Speaker 1
Before. Absolutely.
00:50:19:13 - 00:50:20:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, those are good ones.
00:50:20:08 - 00:50:25:02
Speaker 1
Great fits. Yeah. Quibble bits. I think we both have the same one that we just talked about. Yeah, the piano sound.
00:50:25:05 - 00:50:29:06
Speaker 2
Don't let that stop you from enjoying the record. And you know what? If I'm wrong, I'm right. You know what I mean?
00:50:29:07 - 00:50:36:14
Speaker 1
It's there's no wrong or right. Like I said, it's subjective. You sound right. Yeah, it's it's an artistic choice. Yeah.
00:50:36:16 - 00:50:39:21
Speaker 2
It's nanometer have three.
00:50:39:23 - 00:50:45:02
Speaker 1
It's for a jazz album. It's, I think very accessible. There are a couple tracks that are very.
00:50:45:04 - 00:50:48:03
Speaker 2
Exactly. That's why I went with five, because half of the record.
00:50:48:04 - 00:50:48:17
Speaker 1
Always go with five.
00:50:48:17 - 00:50:52:11
Speaker 2
No, I mean, in terms of number of minutes, half of the record is ten and a half. The record is.
00:50:52:14 - 00:50:55:01
Speaker 1
I will concede that that is, maybe it's a.
00:50:55:01 - 00:50:56:18
Speaker 2
Four. I'm like, finally I.
00:50:56:18 - 00:51:00:23
Speaker 1
You got it. I think you better than Kobe. No, no.
00:51:01:00 - 00:51:19:06
Speaker 2
But you know what? I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to plant this flag in the sand line. In the sand flag in the ground. I'm combining both those metaphors. I'm going to say that like, if the piano sound was better dialed in for me and like, like, you're right, it's a subjective thing. I think this record would have been at or pop possibly better than Kobe in some ways.
00:51:19:06 - 00:51:22:08
Speaker 1
Do you think if it if I would be closer be it would be one.
00:51:22:08 - 00:51:25:11
Speaker 2
No, no, I don't have to sound like that. But just, you know, if the sound.
00:51:25:11 - 00:51:29:21
Speaker 1
But let's say it did sound like Kobe. Yeah. And the instruments were dialed in the Kobe I.
00:51:29:21 - 00:51:40:16
Speaker 2
It's hard to say, but I think I think I think the sound is making such a big impact on me more than when I was younger, when it was like, oh, what is Herbie playing on this? What is McCoy? It's like, that's part of it, what they're playing. But it's also how is it presented?
00:51:40:16 - 00:51:43:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's a huge deal. Yeah. Accouterments.
00:51:43:13 - 00:51:46:11
Speaker 2
I put eight, but now that I'm looking at this, I'm going to have to say nine.
00:51:46:11 - 00:51:48:12
Speaker 1
I got ten, man, I can't imagine you're.
00:51:48:12 - 00:51:51:20
Speaker 2
So good at it. Why do I not hit the ten? Because I'm always like, oh no, that's.
00:51:51:20 - 00:52:06:10
Speaker 1
Not a ten. As especially with this is I love that we have the albums for this, which I think we're going to try to have on every episode, the actual vinyl album, because the back makes it the ten. Herbie's weird seaQuest. No, it's true, narrative here. And the liner notes from Nora Kelly. Is it a.
00:52:06:10 - 00:52:10:19
Speaker 2
Perfect album cover? Because. So that's why I'm afraid here's here's if everything's a ten.
00:52:10:20 - 00:52:13:06
Speaker 1
This is an amazing album. That's an amazing album cover.
00:52:13:06 - 00:52:13:18
Speaker 2
It's a nine.
00:52:13:18 - 00:52:22:15
Speaker 1
It looks like how the music sounds. Yeah. And then the back with the the old school Blue Note fonts here. It's it's just perfect.
00:52:22:15 - 00:52:23:21
Speaker 2
So every Blue Note records at ten that.
00:52:23:22 - 00:52:26:00
Speaker 1
No not true. This one is.
00:52:26:01 - 00:52:30:04
Speaker 2
Okay. We'll say 9.5. We're going to average it out. Is 9.5 okay.
00:52:30:04 - 00:52:45:01
Speaker 1
If you stuck around to hear about, how you can tell us your thoughts. So we make this you'll hear a podcast for you, our dear listeners. And that means that we need to know more about you and what you'd like to hear on. You'll hear it. So we're asking you to fill out our short survey as a thank you.
00:52:45:01 - 00:53:03:21
Speaker 1
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00:53:03:21 - 00:53:05:23
Speaker 1
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00:53:05:23 - 00:53:15:04
Speaker 2
Please please. We're really looking forward to hearing from you guys. You guys can help shape the future of the pod here. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. More. Until next time you'll hear it.
00:53:15:04 - 00:58:39:14
Unknown
But.
00:58:39:16 - 00:59:00:09
Unknown
Who.
00:59:00:11 - 00:59:25:17
Unknown
Move.
00:59:25:19 - 00:59:32:00
Unknown
Who.
00:59:32:02 - 00:59:51:16
Unknown
Move.